Government Operations Committee on March 27th, 2024

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Please get to it.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

You called a meeting unilaterally, without instruction from or consultation with the members of this committee. That is a fundamental, bedrock principle.

Furthermore, you called this meeting on the main estimates. The deadline to study them is May 31. There is no reason to call this meeting during a constituency week, when we have literally two and a half months to study the mains.

This is a political stunt and theatre, which is part and parcel of where our Conservatives colleagues are taking this to get clips.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Can you get to your point of order, please?

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

That is my point.

You unilaterally called a meeting that was not necessary this week because your team is after clips. Again, I take issue and umbrage with that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I appreciate that, but it's not a valid point of order.

I have Mrs. Vignola, and then hopefully we can get to our honourable guest.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to make a few quick comments. According to the Standing Orders, 48 hours' notice must be given in order to call a meeting. Furthermore, committee members must be notified and, at the very least, have a say in selecting the witnesses, which has not been the case for some time now. Contrary to what the member to my right is claiming, I am not saying this because I have no interest in hearing about the people of Saskatchewan. I think it's important to hear both sides of the issue. Even though Quebec isn't subject to the carbon tax, it's important to hear what people have to say.

Nevertheless, I strongly condemn the tactics currently being used to do that. We probably would have been supportive of the committee's hearing from these witnesses had we been notified, but we weren't notified and we weren't involved in the process. As vice-chair of the committee, I feel this adversely affects my ability to do my homework and come prepared. It also means we, as committee members, can't make optimal use of our time with the witnesses, ensuring that we're able to ask them constructive questions related to the issue the committee is studying, whether it's the estimates or something else.

On top of the fact that 48 hours' notice is required to call a meeting, meetings are now being called during constituency weeks, which are very important for each and every one of us. Perhaps some members are thinking only of the next election, but I, personally, am thinking about my constituents in Beauport—Limoilou, constituents who want to meet with me to discuss issues they're having with employment insurance, pension benefits and immigration. The number of people wanting to see me so they can get my help is enormous, and now they won't be able to.

Of course, committee work is part of our job as members, but normally, a committee meeting called during a constituency week should be scheduled at the same time it would be during a parliamentary week. Here we are, though, meeting outside those days and times. It happened yesterday, and it's going to happen again tomorrow. We just found out that we'll be meeting tomorrow from Global News, even though we weren't notified that the meeting was being held until 9:45 this morning.

I find all this deeply troubling. We all need to have a certain amount of respect for one another when it comes to the work we do, the duties we carry out and the responsibilities we have. That bears highlighting.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I have a point of order.

With all due respect to the member, that isn't a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Lawrence is right.

Can you get to your point of order, Mrs. Vignola?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I was referring to the June 24, 2023, version of the Standing Orders of the House of Commons, specifically, Standing Orders 106(1) and 106(4) regarding the 48‑hours' notice requirement. If I cite the Standing Orders when raising a point of order and it's not considered a point of order, something's wrong. I raised a point of order that specifically references the Standing Orders. I'm not pulling this out of nowhere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I was waiting specifically for the point of order. You didn't say that item specifically. I'm sorry.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

It's pretty clear. I'm not off in la‑la land with this point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

If it's specifically on that, I've had one answer, but we're double-checking. If you'll bear with me, we'll suspend for a couple of seconds. We'll just reconfirm.

We are suspended for a couple of moments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back.

Thank you, Mrs. Vignola. I hear you a hundred per cent. I have been told, though, that 48 hours is for the election of the chair. Then there's a different time period for a 106(4) request, but not specifically to call a meeting.

While I appreciate your comments, we are going to proceed.

Premier Moe, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I've turned it over to Premier Moe. Could you—

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, this is about Standing Order 108, which you have not addressed.

I want you to address it for the committee. It states, “In compliance with instructions from the committee or an order from the House, the Chair: calls committee meetings; decides on the agenda”—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, I'm going to interrupt you. I have—

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

You have done none of those things.

It is a shame and a farce, as Madame Vignola—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Get your clip in, Mr. Kusmierczyk, and then I will address this.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

—has stated, that we have learned about tomorrow's meeting from Global News as opposed to from our chair. It is a farce, and it's a violation of the bedrock principles of the way this committee has conducted its work over the last five years. It is shameful and disrespectful to the work of this committee.

As Madame Vignola has stated, we want to prepare for our witnesses. We want due preparation so we can do the work that Canadians expect us to do. We have not been provided any opportunity to consult, we have been provided no opportunity to provide instruction and we have not been provided an opportunity to prepare for this day.

That is on the chair, and you have not responded to Standing Order 108.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have responded to that, Mr. Kusmierczyk. The committee has instructed me to hold meetings on the estimates, and that's what this meeting is on. It's on the main estimates. I have ruled on that.

We're now going to turn things over to Premier Moe for a five-minute opening statement.

[Scott Moe, Premier of Saskatchewan, Government of Saskatchewan]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I trust you can hear me.

I appreciate the very warm Canadian welcome to your committee this morning. I believe it likely started with a request made by me and a number of other premiers to appear before the finance committee. I believe that request still stands, and we hope to hear back from them.

I think this is an important conversation for each of us as elected members, as next Monday we are going to see the carbon tax increase to a level that it was never committed to achieving at its introduction. I think it's important for us to think about the words “never say never”. We should never say never in this nation. I was at that meeting many years ago in Montreal, when there was a commitment made to go to a $50 carbon tax. Since then, what we've seen are commitments to go much higher than that.

I would point out that, more recently, on July 15, 2020, some statements were made by our Bank of Canada governor. He said, “Our message to Canadians is that interest rates are very low and they’re going to be there for a long time.” He went on to say, “If you've got a mortgage or if you're considering making a major purchase, or you're a business and you're considering making an investment, you can be confident rates will be low for a long time.”

Again, I would say “never say never”, because so much has happened since that point in time, on July 15, 2020.

What that did was provide a confirmation bias for some poor policy decisions and for advancing a continued poor policy decision in taking the carbon tax from $50 a tonne to a committed $170 a tonne now and beyond, which we will discuss here today.

Our ask is to pause the increase coming on Monday, but also the development of green electricity standards and clean fuel standards, which are really a second carbon tax. There's the standard to reduce methane by 75%, which is unachievable. The oil production cap—

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, I don't mean to interrupt the honourable premier, but I have a point of order.

I'm trying to—

[Scott Moe]

You are interrupting, though.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, the premier has just a couple of minutes left. Could we let him finish, and then you can speak?