Evidence of meeting #113 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was saskatchewan.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, I fail to see the relevance of this to the question at hand.
Also, I fail to see the relevance of having any premier speak to us on estimates. It's totally out of their purview and totally out of the realm of legitimate actions for the OGGO committee.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Okay. I find it funny that you're calling relevance on the motion and then referring to something else, but I appreciate that.
Mr. Lawrence, we'll go back to you.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
As I was saying, Canada is in—
March 27th, 2024 / 2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
My comments on relevance have to do with the current speaker's speech and how they're going way off topic. The question before us is whether we should have a meeting tomorrow, and the matter being brought forward is that these premiers are going to speak to us about things that are not on the docket for the OGGO committee. It has nothing to do with estimates.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you very much.
Just to circle back once again to inform my colleagues on the other side, the primary subject of the meetings that are scheduled and that is the subject of the debate on this motion, and on the larger sort of argument or debate, is the carbon tax, so I'm going to talk about the carbon tax. They can continue to object to that, or they can just acknowledge the fact that on a motion about carbon tax you can talk about carbon tax.
When we look at—
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC
The member says he's going to talk about carbon tax. I remind the committee that the question before us is not about carbon tax. The question before us is whether or not we're going to have a meeting tomorrow.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you very much.
With respect to relevancy, I believe the meeting tomorrow will talk about the carbon tax, so I think Mr. Lawrence is well within his rights to discuss what would be discussed at the meeting and what committee members—
2:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I have a point of order concerning the point of order regarding the point of order.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
—will be voting on and whether we have a meeting to discuss the items—
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
2:10 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I want to remind Mr. Chambers that tomorrow we'll be talking about the main estimates, not the carbon tax.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
Adam Chambers Conservative Simcoe North, ON
Thank you very much to my Bloc colleague. I appreciate that reminder, but as I recall, the government's revenues and disbursements under the carbon tax rebate regime are included in the main estimates.
2:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. McKinnon and Mr. Chambers.
I think we're understanding what you're getting at. I appreciate that, but again, as I mentioned, we always allow a very wide latitude when it comes to debate, especially on motions.
Continue, Mr. Lawrence.
2:15 p.m.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just to close the loop on that, hopefully, the main estimates talk about the revenue in and out for the carbon tax. Actually, there's a large gap between the amount of rebates being paid out and the amount of money being collected—in billions of dollars. I think that, because the government does claim that the carbon tax is revenue-neutral and that's not what the main estimates show, it's more than relevant. In fact, if there were billions of dollars missing elsewhere, I think we would want the committee to spend significant time studying where that loss of billions of dollars went.
Getting back to, as I said, the issue of the carbon tax, Canadians of course are facing an unprecedented affordability crisis. In fact, Philip Cross, noted statistician and economist as well, I believe, has stated that we have the worst economy since the Great Depression. We've experienced zero economic growth on a per capita basis since 2014. Then we add, on top of that, the sucker punch of the carbon tax, and we put Canadians in a very difficult position.
On a go-forward basis, one of the reasons for the urgency of hearing from the premiers is that, as of April 1, the carbon tax is set to go up by 23%—
