Government Operations Committee on March 27th, 2024

[Scott Moe]

It's a good story. You and I will sit down and I'll share it with you one day.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Sure.

Do you support Canada's commitment to the Paris Agreement, then?

[Scott Moe]

Certainly we do, and in particular article 6, which we would like to see some activity on.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Again, I'll point to a point that Ms. Vignola made.

Just this week, 100 economists signed off on a letter in an attempt to dispel some of the main arguments of Mr. Poilievre and other opponents, including you. These economists say that a carbon price is “actually the least costly way to lower emissions”.

If you agree that we need to lower emissions and that we're looking at affordability challenges for Canadians across the country, and this is the least costly way, what would you say to that?

[Scott Moe]

It's not the least costly way in Saskatchewan, and a number of those economists—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Do you disagree with these economists?

[Scott Moe]

—are the very same economists that were appointed by your government to the Ecofiscal Commission back in 2016, when—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

So do you disagree with the economists, yes or no?

[Scott Moe]

—there was an attempt.... The last agreement that all Canadians—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm sorry, sir. I have such a short period of time.

[Scott Moe]

—and national leaders agreed on was in 2016. It was the Vancouver declaration. That's the last pan-Canadian agreement we have—

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm sorry. I have to ask another question.

[Scott Moe]

Sure.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

You also mentioned that you see the carbon levy as showing no measurable impacts. We actually have statistics from the Canadian Climate Institute findings that the carbon pricing system has actually helped lower emissions by about 8% currently, and we're on track to meet our targets. It accounts for about 30% of the emissions reduction plan. Would you agree with their findings?

[Scott Moe]

I would agree that we could go much further with some collaboration around recognition of the investments in industries from coast to coast to coast in Canada.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm also going to focus on the rebate piece, because constituents in my community are certainly concerned about the environment, but they're also faced with this affordability challenge.

I'm going to look at some of the folks from your part of the world.

Alan, from Saskatoon, says that the carbon rebate he gets four times a year is crucial for his household budget. Without the funds, Alan, who is on disability assistance, says he'll have to scale back on spending for his everyday needs. Germaine, from Saskatoon, says she relies on the carbon rebate for essentials, and while she is on disability assistance, the carbon rebate is a key part of her budget. Peter Gilmore, an advocate for the Anti-Poverty Ministry in Regina, says those on low incomes rely on rebates to pay for essentials.

Do you know how many people in Saskatchewan rely on these rebates to get by in the midst of an affordability crisis?

[Scott Moe]

In general, they get less back than they pay.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Can you table some data to prove that for us, please, sir?

[Scott Moe]

It's in the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report and has been quoted many times. I can send that to you, yes.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

You don't know how many people in Saskatchewan may be worse off if you cancel the carbon rebate.

[Scott Moe]

I talked to Kevin in La Loche. He's quite concerned about it, because he lives about four hours from his major centre, a trip he makes every week or two weeks, at the least. I talked to Jamie, who's also up in the La Loche and Buffalo Narrows area. He very much was challenged with the electric heat in his home, for which the provincial government has made a move, mirroring the federal government's decision on it. He also lives three to four hours away from a major centre. It's a trip he has to make often on the business side and on the personal side with his family, and to get to work.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

On the clean fuel regulations, here in my province we actually had our premier legislate an additional 8¢ on top of what New Brunswickers are paying at the pump, with no justification for it. Would you plan to do a similar thing in Saskatchewan?

[Scott Moe]

I'm not aware of what happened in that case in New Brunswick, so I can't say whether we would do a similar thing, but our overarching goal is to keep taxes as low as possible, in particular taxes that are ineffective, like the carbon tax.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Sir, would you agree that uncertainty around the price on pollution isn't good for businesses?

[Scott Moe]

I would say that the price on pollution is creating uncertainty in the investment environment in Saskatchewan and Canada.