Government Operations Committee on March 28th, 2024

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I didn't hear his disparaging comment about my jacket, Mr. Chair. I'm definitely going to ask for the meeting transcript afterwards.

Mr. Higgs, you said earlier that you'd like to see the funding go to English-language school boards as well. I'm curious as to how the allocation of federal funding is to blame. Why can't you just adjust your education programming?

[Blaine Higgs]

I'm sorry if that's what you got from my message. It is a provincial responsibility. My point was that I would like to see greater results from our schools, greater results in our kids' ability to speak both languages. We are a bilingual province, after all, but our performance really hasn't improved much in that regard in the 50 years of trying to learn a second language. In terms of our education in the English schools, about 30% graduate being bilingual, so 70% don't. If we're a bilingual province, how could that be our record after 50 years?

We know that we have challenges in literacy and numeracy too. That's an ongoing challenge, as are other activities in the school that we're trying to manage. We know that the teachers are going to make the difference in all that. Finding a way for teachers' voices to be heard is the solution.

That was my point earlier. If that wasn't clear, that's what I was trying to put across.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like some clarification about the 60¢ a litre you cited. Where did you get that number from? You brought up science, but that would basically mean that every litre of gas was equivalent to 1% of a tonne of greenhouse gas emissions, that filling up the tank of a large vehicle would produce a tonne of emissions per fill-up. Is that what you're saying?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have about 10 seconds to respond, Premier Higgs.

[Blaine Higgs]

On the fill-up, the point is that going where we are going.... It just keeps adding up. Today, the 23% would make a difference in cars. I'd say that for a new car filling up right now, that would be $10 more on 50 litres of gas. Looking at where this is headed, by 2030, for bigger vehicles, it would be $600; for a minivan, $450; for an SUV, $420; for a sedan, $400.

The point of the 62¢ is that 37.5¢ would be carbon tax, 17¢ would be clean fuel standards, and 8¢ on that is HST, which gives you 63¢ by 2030.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Premier Higgs. We are trying to keep to our schedule so that we can get you out on time.

It's back to you, Mr. Bachrach, for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Premier Higgs, you've talked at length about this idea of selling gas to Europe as part of Canada's contribution to global climate change. I'm wondering about the business case for New Brunswick specifically. You're talking about building massive amounts of infrastructure, shipping the gas across the ocean and selling it to European countries.

Are those European markets to which you're hoping to sell New Brunswick LNG projected to have increasing demand for such gas?

[Blaine Higgs]

Yes. They are indeed. We have a couple of MOUs. We've had different countries that have asked us if we would sign a 20-year agreement for supply. There's no shortage of demand. When I was in Europe, they said they can't believe Canada is not providing any energy solution for their needs there.

On the point of us building the infrastructure, we already have an LNG plant here in eastern Canada. It's for LNG import. It can be converted for LNG export for around $2 billion to $3 billion. Repsol was prepared to do that, but they need a gas supply. We have gas in the province. We have pipelines that are already connecting this gas supply. It's a matter of developing them and utilizing....

You know, we all need to be onside. First nations need to be part of this, for sure. A very moderate expansion on the first nations communities in New Brunswick could have an impact of anywhere between $800 million and $1.6 billion. That's just on a very modest expansion of wells that are already in place in the southwestern part of the province.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In thinking long term, Premier, is the analysis that you're getting showing that there is increasing demand for gas in those European markets?

[Blaine Higgs]

Yes. It's showing that they absolutely...hydrogen is.... Before it's any impact—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

No, not hydrogen. I mean natural gas.

[Blaine Higgs]

I know, but my point is that there isn't an alternative. That was where I was going with that. There isn't an alternative.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay. Back to my original question, you said that you have analysis that shows there's increasing demand for natural gas in European markets. Can you table that analysis with the committee?

[Blaine Higgs]

Let's put it this way. Let's put the facts.... I could sign tomorrow a 20-year agreement with a country in Europe for gas supply.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Which country is that?

[Blaine Higgs]

The Czech Republic was one. We've had others that have.... When I was there, there was the Czech Republic. We've had others that have shown interest, and other countries like the U.S. are building.... Germany is another, because they've built a lot of LNG import facilities. They are building this infrastructure, and they did it in record time. If you looked at the stats, you'd see they put these up in months in order to save gas—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize, Premier. That is our time.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll have to move on. Our last two interventions will be five-minute interventions.

We have Mr. Hallan, and then it will be Mr. Kusmierczyk.

Go ahead, Mr. Hallan.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Thank you, Premier Higgs, for being here. You've joined 70% of Canadians and six other premiers, including a Liberal premier, Andrew Furey, to call on this Liberal-NDP government to spike the hike on April 1 that will raise the carbon tax by 23%, making everything more expensive.

Can you please explain to this committee why you're calling for this and why it's so important to spike the hike?

[Blaine Higgs]

It's like putting in a needle. You keep doing it a little bit at a time and you think it doesn't hurt that bad, so you can stand it. All of a sudden you look back and you see that you've added 60¢ a litre to gas. At what point do you bring this thing to reality? The analysis done earlier said it's only going to be 60¢ on a fill-up. Currently, with the 17.6¢ and where we are right now, it relays into an extra $10 on the total carbon tax to date. Then you keep moving that along to the 60¢ and it becomes more relevant. At some point, you bring it up and say, “Okay, when are we going to realize that this is a punitive tax?” It's not achieving the big picture results, and we think we're saving the world on climate change. That's the point.

We are causing a negative impact on every citizen. You can argue with me or you can look across the country and see seven provinces that are saying this is a problem. You can ask what we can do about it. Seven provinces that are represented by different parties are saying that this is a problem. At some point, you'd like to think there would be an ear to hear this, and we'd say, all right, yes, we're getting deeper now. It's costing more now. It's not just about another three cents in April. It's about all the cumulative effects of the increased cost of energy, particularly in provinces that have no other alternative.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

The PBO once again reiterated yesterday that the carbon tax has a negative impact on families. Can you talk a bit more about the negative impact on families in New Brunswick?

[Blaine Higgs]

To me, the issue becomes calculating the full spectrum of what it means to have higher energy costs. We've seen costs go up in every sector. In grocery stores particularly, they have gone up. Building supplies have gone up. Our inflationary costs have gone up. We're seeing a little change in the inflation rate, so let's hope that continues to drop.

In New Brunswick, we've seen assessments go up dramatically, but we've had population growth here for the first time in many years. It's had an impact. The cost of housing is preventing more houses from being built, so people look at it and say, “Is the government going to come up with a solution here to solve the problem?” Let's focus on the problem. Let's get back to the policies that are creating the problem or are certainly having a major impact and making it worse, rather than trying to pretend that we should put on band-aids in order to mitigate a poor policy.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

The Liberal-NDP government consistently says that Canada is the problem.

Premier Higgs, can you please let the Liberal-NDP government know how Canada can be the solution and why it's not the problem?

[Blaine Higgs]

Yes. What I was saying earlier is about what we're seeing in B.C. and in Alberta with the export of energy and natural gas. What we can do on the east coast is the very same thing: exports of natural gas and LNG.

The issue is that this is a climate action that mitigates the affordability challenge, because the revenue would be used for offsetting costs for people in the province and would be used for technology development. When we develop the technology, people are going to be more acute, more astute, about how they can manage and reduce their emissions.

We talk about the electric cars. We're not able to cope with electric car production or the battery production to meet the requirements for 2035. The point is, let's have a realistic plan to transition through this time period, but let's use our resources to pay for it, rather than everybody's homes, everybody's pockets. Let the resources pay for the change that we all know we must....