Evidence of meeting #127 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was emails.
A video is available from Parliament.
7:20 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No. There was no corruption, but when you change departments and when you take your phone with you, the common practice is that the new department wipes your phone and configures it for the new department.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay. I think it might be simpler if the committee just agreed to send for those text messages from you, as well as from Mr. MacDonald, as well as from the government and the service provider. We're essentially soliciting that information from everyone who has them. Is there any objection from the committee to that?
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Compared to what else we've asked for, I don't think all of the text messages between these two individuals would be too exhaustive, and I suspect it would be useful information.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Right. What I'm asking for is from what date. August 1990, August 2021....
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
When did people start using cellphones? Sure, 1990....
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
No. You know what I mean. Starting in January 2020, or starting the from beginning of the pandemic....
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Okay, let's say from 2018 until present.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
7:20 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
In terms of these text messages, you said, according to these messages, “My issue is what I want to say vs what I can say”, “[Can't] throw phac under the bus”, “[Can't] throw Ministers under the bus”. Is there information you would have said, which you can't say, that would cast ministers in a negative light? We've been told that ministers haven't been involved in these discussions at all, yet you seem to imply, in these text messages, that you know something about ministers that they wouldn't want shared at committee.
7:20 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No, there isn't.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
There isn't. So would you have said something like that or implied that there was something in the conversation with Mr. MacDonald?
7:20 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I believe I answered that question earlier. If I am asked why there were so many changes to the application and why the cost was so high, it was because we were meeting the needs of other departments.
7:20 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Mr. Doan, that's not the question. The question is about ministers.
We have text messages between Mr. MacDonald and you that say you “[Can't] throw Ministers under the bus”, and your issue is what you want to say versus what you can say. That would imply that you would like to say something that would cast ministers in a negative light and you feel that you can't say it. But you're telling us now that you would have nothing to say regarding ministers one way or the other.
So which is it? Were ministers involved or not? If they weren't, what are we to make of these text messages?
7:20 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Ministers were not involved, and I can't throw people under the bus. That goes against my integrity and my approach. I didn't throw Mr. MacDonald under the bus last time I was at committee under oath for two and a half hours—
7:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Sir, you're just not answering the question.
7:25 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I am answering the question.
7:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Witnesses have to answer the question. That's how this works here.
You said, “My issue is what I want to say vs what I can say”.
What is it you want to say that you can't say to this committee, sir?
7:25 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I can only imagine what I wanted to say.
7:25 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I could say that I was very frustrated. I was very tired. I was working seven days a week. I was frustrated that after what I thought was something that met the needs at the time was now being questioned—my integrity and the cost and how we went about it.
That's what I wanted to say. We were working around the clock. We thought we—
7:25 p.m.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
You're still not answering the question.
7:25 p.m.
Chief Technology Officer of the Government of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I am answering the question.