Government Operations Committee on Aug. 21st, 2024

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, I would turn to my colleague, whom I've been working very closely with on the purchase of the condo, about the specific rules, because I don't have those details.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Who would that be?

[Robin Dubeau]

That would be me. Thank you.

We took into account the ability to perform the duties or the requirements of the program before purchasing the unit. I haven't read the condominium convention that exists for the building myself, but I know the unit was selected because it will be possible and convenient to organize events according to the program needs.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

You're not aware of what it might state in that convention.

[Robin Dubeau]

I'm not aware of any restrictions that may exist in the new condo. Typically, there are restrictions on security and access, but other than that, I'm not aware of any other restrictions.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mrs. Atwin, please go ahead.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thought it was Mr. Jowhari first, but I can certainly go.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It is. Go ahead, Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll make a brief comment before I continue on the line of questioning.

Colleagues, Canadians, we are here with a fiduciary responsibility to ensure that we hold any type expenditure...we need better [Inaudible—Editor] and accountability. It is fair to ask tough questions. It is fair to ask clarification questions. It is fair to challenge the premise of a decision that was made by officials, but I strongly recommend that we ensure we honour the true meaning of being a member of Parliament who represents Canadians, and stop labelling our officials, who are working hard. These officials may be working with other parties—hopefully, not for a long time—but these officials need respect, because they are working very hard to represent Canada and Canada's interests.

Thank you.

On Canada and Canada's interests, I want to go to, I believe, Mr. Mark Allen.

I talked before about framing our conversation with three themes. One is imperative. I think we have it. I think our closing of the last round was around policies that were followed, values and getting value for money. A lot of documents are going to come, and we're going to have an opportunity to look at those calculations and valuations and decide whether it is value for money.

I really want to talk about the third theme, which is importance. We've talked about it a number of times, and we've come at it from an angle, saying, “You know what? We probably could have served it somewhere else.”

Can you give me a sense of how big this mission is, from a dollar value point of view, for trade? We're debating whether it's two meetings that are being held or it's one meeting every two weeks, but how important are these meetings? I hear $200 billion. I hear about representing six or seven jurisdictions.

Can you break down for us how important the work we are doing in this area is?

[Mark Allen]

Thank you.

Yes, this is one of twelve consulates general in the United States. This has a territory of five states—New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware and Pennsylvania—and the $200 billion is the two-way trade between Canada and the entire consular territory.

The eastern seaboard is a very influential part of the United States. We mentioned that it's the economic capital of the United States and a centre for global financial markets. The GDP of that entire area is $6 trillion. As we said, the two-way trade between Canada and the territory is in the neighbourhood of $200 billion.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

For Canadians, we are talking about $200 billion of a $6-trillion opportunity. Can you give me Canada's GDP perspective?

[Mark Allen]

I can tell you that the entire trade between Canada and the United States is in the neighbourhood of $3 billion each and every day. Reference has also been made to our G7 collaborators. I would say that it's not just because we're the United States' friend and neighbour that they trade with us; we're actually economic competitors of many of those G7 countries, such as the U.K., France and Germany. We need to constantly maintain these relationships. Our presence and our network are very much about being constantly in the orbit of U.S. decision-makers in order to maintain our share of that important global trade.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thanks a lot.

With 20 seconds to go, I'll ask a final question. Do you think an investment of $9 million with a net savings of $7.4 million over 50 years is justified to be able to facilitate—and I won't use any other word than "facilitate"—the trade and the $200-billion opportunity in a $6-trillion market?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Jowhari has left you enough time for a yes-or-no answer—not even that.

[Mark Allen]

It's not about my personal opinion; it's about value for money. I hope to have demonstrated the importance of this market to Canadians.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Allen.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

There was some mention of the incongruity involved in renting an apartment for the consul general. I'd like to know how your leasing operations work. GAC has properties in New York City, but it also leases housing. They have a lot of leases.

How does that work? Does the department give diplomats a stipend and tell them to figure it out, or does the diplomat bill the department for their rent?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

I thank the member for her question.

Unfortunately, my expertise is limited to real estate. Mr. Dubeau may have some information, given his experience.

[Robin Dubeau]

That's a good question.

Housing abroad is governed by different regimes. Different approaches are used to provide staff with housing. A dwelling can be owned, and assigned to the diplomat; a dwelling can be rented for a diplomat's use; or, particularly in the United States, a diplomat can be asked to find a home and sign a lease for it as a private individual, and the department will reimburse the monthly cost.

So there are three ways of doing it.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What option is the most cost-effective for Canada?

[Robin Dubeau]

It depends a lot on local factors.

In the United States, and in some parts of Europe, we prefer private rentals, because the conditions are more conducive. In places where different security conditions or other major issues come into play, we prefer to own our accommodations because of the expensive security improvements we make. This way, we see a return on our investment.

So I would say that it depends on the conditions in a given country.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In New York, and Manhattan especially, how many units do we rent, and how much do they cost on a monthly basis?

[Robin Dubeau]

I'll have to look into that and get back to you with an answer, because I don't have that information.