Evidence of meeting #135 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm curious about accessibility. It was mentioned as one of the justifications for the purchase of the new property. The old property didn't meet the requirements of the Accessible Canada Act.
My question is whether the new property meets those requirements, specifically what the shortcomings at the old property were, and if the new property doesn't meet the requirements of the Accessible Canada Act, what the estimate is to ensure that the new property is brought up to spec and meets the requirements of the act.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
This is an excellent question. Indeed, the current residence doesn't meet the accessibility act.
I will turn to my colleague Robin Dubeau, who can speak about the new residence and information about accessibility.
Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property and Infrastructure Solutions, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
You have several questions. One is about the shortcomings of the existing official residence. There were two categories of shortcomings that were identified in that residence. One of them was associated with the unit per se. To be more accurate, an accessible bathroom was not not available in the unit. I know there were also base building conditions that prevented full accessibility.
Those issues are not found in the same way in the new residence, and we can now say that this new residence we've acquired is accessible.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Does the new residence meet the requirements of the Accessible Canada Act, since the act was referenced in the shortcomings of the old residence?
Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property and Infrastructure Solutions, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
That's my understanding.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I want to circle back on Minister Mélanie Joly's involvement in this latest Justin Trudeau scandal.
We heard through you, Mr. Cousineau, that you notified her chief of staff some time in June. You're going to give us the exact date. What I didn't hear is the actual date of the closing on the new unit. Presumably, real estate closes at the end of the month. Is it safe to say this occurred at the end of June 2024?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, if you'll bear with me, I just want to make sure that I have the information right in front of my eyes. The transaction approval.... Yes, the payment and the transaction were toward the end of June 2024.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Mélanie Joly's office was notified much earlier than the actual sale. Is that correct?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, as part of our process and communication, yes, we communicated at the end—
August 21st, 2024 / 12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
To your knowledge, you communicated only with the chief of staff. I'd like you to table the correspondence you sent to the chief of staff. Will you do that, sir?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, I'm not sure there's correspondence.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Did you pick up the phone and say, “Hey, by the way, we just purchased a $9-million condo on Billionaires' Row? Is that what you did?
Surely, there must be something that's official.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, I want to reiterate that we follow our delegation of authority, supported by expertise and a team—
Conservative
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Our team has been communicating with the minister's office.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
How did you communicate? Was it snail mail, email or a telephone call? What did you do?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, I can confirm and verify how the communication was done with—
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Fine. It's absolutely ridiculous that you can't tell me how you communicate with your own ministry. It's absolutely ludicrous.
I think Canadians want to know why there's been such a deafening silence from the minister herself. Knowing that we have a housing crisis and an affordability crisis, and we've had nine years of Justin Trudeau's spendthrift and irresponsible government.... There have been crickets from the minister with respect to a $9-million condo for Justin Trudeau's buddy, who once asked him, “What kind of shampoo do you use?”
Why hasn't she communicated to the public about this particular purchase?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, we follow the delegation of authority. I wouldn't want to speak on behalf of the minister. I think that question would be more appropriate for the minister herself.
Thank you.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay. Let's talk about the property.
The listing reads, “An elegant entry foyer offers white macauba stone floors, and the stunning powder room is finished in jewel onyx.” There are custom smoked gray floors. There's Italian white Venato marble in one of the bathrooms, “a free-standing copper soaking tub handcrafted by William Holland, and custom bronze fixtures by P.E. Guerin.” We talk about a kitchen equipped with “a wet bar...Cristallo Gold quartzite countertops...custom hand-crafted cabinetry, and full suite of Gaggenau appliances.” Gaggenau is the most expensive appliance maker in the world. A Gaggenau oven costs $19,000. I guess shopping at our local Leon's or The Brick wasn't an option for the Canadian taxpayers.
I'm wondering why you had to have all of these features. I'm referencing your statement when you talked about the old unit: “Last refurbished in 1982, the apartment does not meet new building codes nor (GAC) standards.”
Are what I just described to you as luxurious pieces GAC standards or, more frankly, are they Tom Clark's standards? Can you answer that question, sir?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, People and International Platform, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mr. Chair, I'd like to just reiterate that Mr. Clark didn't have any influence in the selection and approval of this new condo. The features that were just described are not part of what I would call space requirements. We don't look at those kinds of feature. We look at the value of the property, and we felt that the value proposition and the value for money were there for Canadians.
