Government Operations Committee on Aug. 21st, 2024

[Stéphane Cousineau]

If I might intervene, we have 182 missions in 112 countries.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

With respect to this specific property, who else...? I think one of your colleagues began to touch on the importance of diplomatic relations and being in an area where, considering the difficult times that we are seeing now, security and safety are, of course, paramount in some of these decisions.

Not only that, but we are also in a time when we need to continue to grow, whether it's economically or by increasing our defence efforts and all of these things, so how important were those things with regard to the decision that was being made in New York?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Indeed, all those criteria that were mentioned are very important parts of our process.

I will turn to Mark Allen, who can speak to the value that it brings for us.

[Mark Allen]

Thank you.

The trade and investment driven by the consulate are directly linked to the economic security of Canadians. I think people are aware of the critical minerals market right now, which is a very important one. A number of investments in critical minerals can directly be traced back to events that were held at the consulate. This includes an investment of $1.5 billion in the Nemaska Lithium mine in Quebec.

I also mentioned that New York is the centre of global financial markets. Two Japanese banks located there have invested $39 million in other Canadian nickel and lithium projects—again, as a result of events that have been held in the residence.

Thank you.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Can you continue to list more, please, if there's anything else that you can add?

[Mark Allen]

Those are some examples of high-impact investments. There have been 50 events, as has been noted, in the last two years, like a range of conferences, lunches and other events very frequently driving the trade program, as well as the public affairs program.

Another important function of the consulate is networking with political representatives in the United States, with governors' offices and with New York assembly persons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Allen, but we're out of time.

We're now going to Mr. Genuis, please.

Go ahead, sir.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Following Mr. Brock's line of questioning, and just to put a fine point on it, can you please provide to this committee in writing a detailed breakdown of all monthly costs associated with both locations, including any taxes, any condo fees, any co-op fees and any utilities—a clear breakdown for both locations, with all of the information you have? Will you be able to provide that to the committee within the usual timeline?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, as already mentioned, we can provide the options analysis, which actually includes the net present value. It should include all of that information. I would also like to clarify that—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No, no, no—it's my time. You're going to provide all the information I requested in writing. Thank you.

My next question is—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I thought there was going to be a statement that was going to clarify what Mr. Genuis was asking, and I would like to hear it.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Well, you can just—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Longfield, you can hear it during your time, but this is Mr. Genuis' time. Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

People who have been here for a long time have complete ignorance of the rules.

Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have four minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

On a point of order, I don't appreciate the comment Mr. Genuis just made to an honourable member.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Excuse me, Mr. Longfield. That's not a point of order. I appreciate it, but we understand the sentiment.

Mr. Genuis, continue with your time, please.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Just to the witnesses, I do want to say I think it's pretty disingenuous to project cost savings based on a comparison of purchase price in one case with asking price in another. That's clearly an apples-to-orange comparison, or maybe more precisely an apples-to-magic apples comparison.

You've set an asking price for the old property at 550 Park Avenue, but that asking price is not the same as the appraised value. We heard that yesterday.

My research team looked at other properties being sold at 550 Park Avenue. All of them have sold substantially below asking price, if they were sold at all. In many cases, the price was reduced and then they were taken off the market and not sold. Just for your reference, we looked at units number 10, 2W, 17E, 11W, 12A, 16A, 16E and 6W. In all cases they were reduced in price and not sold or they sold at a price substantially reduced from the asking price, so your fake math of comparing the asking price to the purchase price is pretty thin.

If you wanted to show that this was a good transaction and that there were savings, I'd like to know why in the world you didn't just sell the existing property first before purchasing the new property. That would have given you a sense of what your actual comparison was in terms of numbers. Why did you wait to even list the old property until you purchased the new one?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Chair, I welcome the question.

Let's remember that the residence is a place of work. It's not just like a pure residence, so we actually needed business continuity. If we had sold the actual residence, we would have actually had to lease another location so that we could ensure business continuity, which is why we didn't—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Sir, you have multiple different locations at which you can hold events.

For an interim period of a few months, you could have used many other spaces in New York, such as the consulate itself, a space that's available to the UN ambassador. You could have hosted other events in other locations. In fact, most of the hospitality expenses for Mr. Clark involve restaurants. You frequently host events in restaurants, so that excuse isn't going to fool anyone either, sir.

Why could you not at least secure a buyer for the old location before moving to the new location, instead of coming to committee with this fake comparison of apples and oranges?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, I will go back to the criteria that we talked about earlier about when we select a location. It's about not only location but also meeting the criteria with respect to security—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

The question is why didn't you sell first?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

—and business continuity.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

But there are so many other locations in New York where you could have events.

I have another question in the same vein. Is your analysis of numbers predicated on the Park Avenue property's selling within a certain time frame? You told us about certain potential alleged savings. Are those savings predicated on its selling within a certain time frame?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, I welcome the question. The savings we are presenting in our net present value are not tied to a specific sale of the current condo. Thank you.