Government Operations Committee on Aug. 21st, 2024

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

The oven is $19,000. The refrigerator is $13,000. The coffee maker is $4,600. The freezer is $11,000. The dishwasher is $6,000. How on earth is that value for the Canadian taxpayer?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, once again—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Could we have a very brief answer, please?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Once again, Mr. Chair, that's not part of the space requirements that we look at when we do the actual evaluation of a new property. I'll leave it at that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

We're now going to go over to you, Ms. Atwin. Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to begin my questions this round by saying that the way we present ourselves as parliamentarians should be front of mind. Canadians are watching this. I think the public servants who have come before us today to share what they know have been open, transparent and honest with us, so I really take offence at the characterization of anyone who's come before us today as not being as truthful as they possibly can be. I just think we need to be really careful about how we conduct our meetings. There's been a bit of a trend here, unfortunately, to rake our public servants over the coals. As we know, in the past, this has actually led to threats being made against them or social media campaigns, so I really would caution all of us to be careful that this doesn't happen again.

I do have a question.

Mr. Cousineau, you mentioned the consul serving 300,000 Canadians in the area. What kinds of services do citizens actually receive at the residence?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Mr. Chair, thank you very much for the question. It's an excellent one. I can tell you that the consulate is one of our busiest missions in the world. I'll turn to my dear colleague Mark Allen to respond on the operation.

[Mark Allen]

With respect to services the consulate provides directly to citizens, the committee will be aware of a number of incidents that have happened in New York's territory over the last year. There was a tour bus crash in upstate New York involving Canadians. A plane went down. People will remember the explosion at the Rainbow Bridge last November.

When these things happen, it's very important that the consulate have very close ties with local authorities. In this case that was for the governor's office, for example, with respect to the explosion at the Rainbow Bridge. Those ties are, as I said earlier, maintained and advanced through the work of the consulate, including through events at the official residence.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much. More generally, considering all the testimony we've heard today and yesterday—and any of our witnesses can weigh in on this—have you personally dealt with any cases similar to this one, in which a residence or other real property was bought to replace one that was being sold? Is this something you've experienced before?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for that question. As I mentioned at the beginning, we have quite a complex infrastructure around the globe with 182 missions in 112 countries, so we do have regular transactions, hundreds of projects. I can't speak to whether there have been any recent transactions similar to this one. I am looking to my colleague Mr. Dubeau.

[Robin Dubeau]

Thank you for the opportunity.

As Mr. Cousineau was saying, with the number of properties we have abroad, we have experience in transactions involving either selling or purchasing or replacing assets, whether those be chanceries, official residences or staff quarters. Of course, we don't replace official residences as often as staff quarters, but we have had experience over the past few years with those transactions.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Do you remember similar committee studies or can you think of previous inquiries of this nature?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

I don't recall any study such as this one.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Okay. In general, again, as far as anything you know with regard to this purchase and to the decisions that were made goes, was all policy followed?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

I'm going to reiterate that all the policies were followed. It was a smart acquisition, and it was well documented and exempt from any influence. Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Do you have any concerns at all about how this process unfolded or anything that has transpired with regards to this conversation?

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Indeed, I'm very proud of the work that has been done by our people, the recommendations that they provided and the due diligence they've followed in providing value for money for Canadians as we move forward with this initiative. Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

With my remaining couple of seconds here, I'd just like to ask, in general, again...I know you've been interrupted a bit. There has been some time taken away from your responses. If there's anything at all you'd like to add, please do so.

[Stéphane Cousineau]

Once again, I think this is a very smart investment. We're very proud of the work that has been done on this new acquisition that we've made. When we look at other countries such as Denmark, which is not even part of the G7, they are in Manhattan and they paid like $9 million. If we compare it with the G7, I think we're well positioned. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Cousineau.

Mr. Genuis, back to you, please, sir.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I think one thing that has come clearly through the Liberal line here is that they believe that investing in Canada means investing in luxury for a few well-connected officials. This underlines that Liberals can't tell the difference between investing in Canada and investing in themselves, and this was very clear in Mr. Kusmierczyk's comments.

Of course Conservatives recognize the importance of our presence in New York. We also recognize the cost of living crisis and that events can be held in various places. We don't need an infinite number of possible places to host events.

I want to drill down into the government's argument here that this is fundamentally about hosting. The Government of Canada purchased a glitzy $9-million residence on Billionaires' Row with all kinds of incredibly luxurious features. It's much nicer than the kind of property that most Canadians or most New Yorkers would have. The claim that the government has made is this allows them to host events. Ironically, though, this glitzier property is a much nicer place for the occupant, but has much less hosting space.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Let me interrupt you. There's a point of order, Mr. Genuis.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I'm just wondering if you could check through the clerk if we're having any challenges with our interpretation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm hearing the French okay.

To the interpreter, can you hear Mr. Genuis okay?

We're fine. Perfect.

Sorry, Mr. Genuis. Go ahead.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

No problem.

In terms of the potential for hosting in this new location, do you have a copy of the condo rules associated with hosting events in the new location?