Evidence of meeting #148 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.
A video is available from Parliament.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
That was in The Globe and Mail.
The 31st is fine.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
That's pretty much our time.
Just to clarify, our committee has passed a motion. It's a maximum of 21 days. Earlier is always better for us.
We'll go over to you, Mr. Bains. Go ahead, sir.
October 24th, 2024 / 11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our department officials for joining us today.
How does ISC work with other departments to improve indigenous participation in procurement across government? What's the process?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I'm happy to answer that.
One of the things we do, Mr. Chair, is lead the development of new measures and guidance on PSIB. We lead coordination outreach. We raise awareness with the indigenous business community. We register, of course, and validate indigenous businesses. We also coordinate departmental procurement plans to support monitoring and reporting activities. We're a point of contact, service and advice on PSIB, and we consolidate and publicly report annually on all the departmental results of meeting that target of 5%.
Those are just some of the things that we do, as well as leading the engagement and the consultations, as has been said, on transforming the policy.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Is ISC currently working with private sector partners to explore procurement opportunities? Is there any third party involvement? Is Minister Hajdu involved in these conversations?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I can't necessarily say if Minister Hajdu is involved directly with the private sector. I know that she certainly promotes the PSIB. She's out there talking about it more generally, so I would imagine she is in conversations around this.
What was your first question again? I'm sorry.
Liberal
Liberal
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Our engagement is predominantly with indigenous businesses and indigenous organizations. Of course, when we engage with indigenous businesses, that would be the private sector. We have many conversations in terms of lessons learned, best practices and input into how we should be transforming our indigenous procurement strategy. That is specific to Indigenous Services Canada.
Of course, there has been testimony provided by Public Services and Procurement Canada about the role of Procurement Assistance Canada in that space as well.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Can you please express whether round tables on economic reconciliation are areas in which Minister Hajdu might be engaging in some of these things?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services
The minister has led a really excellent discussion with mainstream banks and indigenous financial organizations in this country to look at some of the barriers around business development and access to capital.
We are working closely with them, and we're also planning for a third round table in the month of November, to get down to some granularity around options and ideas to remove barriers to increased indigenous participation in the Canadian economy, with procurement as part of that.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indigenous Services
Access to capital is one—affordable capital, that is. What are the mechanisms there to ensure there's a fair, transparent process around risk assessments for indigenous businesses and communities trying to access capital?
We have the Indian Act, which is a barrier in some sense around limitations that prevent communities from leveraging their assets as collateral. It's not permitted under the Indian Act, so that creates another barrier. We're looking at options to do workarounds, if you will. We're generating some ideas from mainstream banks and also the first nations financial leadership.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
According to officials from Public Services and Procurement, the indigenous business directory.... I know a lot has been said about the directory and how it's compiled, but it contains about 2,900 companies. It's estimated there are upwards of 60,000 businesses across Canada.
When I was talking about third party assistance in some manner, is somebody helping identify and do the work before they come to find out the issue of the identity and people who may be taking advantage of this through some type of a process?
If you have 2,900 companies in the directory but there are 60,000 out there, is anybody working on this? Is the government getting any help identifying them?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm afraid time has not been left for an answer. Perhaps you can come back to it in the next round or provide that answer to us in writing.
Mrs. Vignola, please go ahead.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
One witness told us that status verification methods were not consistent, as they differed for Inuit, Métis and first nations members. Is it the intention of the department or the government to standardize status verification methods?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
In fact, there is a very specific verification process.
The evidence that we look at for registration is either Indian registration or citizenship with an indigenous organization. All of these are certified by Crown-Indigenous Relations.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I would like to clarify that the witness said that, to be certified as Métis, you simply have to show that you have a Métis great-grandfather, for example, whereas for first nations, there could be a loss of status as early as the second generation. If I were a first nations person, I think my grandson might not be, even though I considered him to be a first nations person. That has a definite impact.
Like that witness, I would like to know the number of Inuit businesses, the number of Métis businesses and the number of first nations businesses in your directory, as well as the number of contracts awarded to each group.
I would like you to send us that information in writing within the next 21 days, please.
I have 15 seconds left.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We have some information here. Ms. Sultan will be able to provide you with some in a moment, but first I would like to clarify something.
I want to talk about Crown-Indigenous Relations, or CIRNAC, with regard—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
There's not much time. Would you be able to provide a brief response?
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Yes, it's going to be very brief: We go with their list.
Jessica, do you want to add anything?
Director General, Economic Policy Development, Department of Indigenous Services
I can provide you with the number and the breakdown of first nations, Métis and Inuit businesses in the directory. We'll have to get back to you on the number of contracts. There are 1,966 first nations businesses, 811 Métis businesses and 162 Inuit businesses.
