Government Operations Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you for that.

The reason I ask that question is that my fear is that some are using this procurement study to say that it can never work, that it's not working, that we should stop this, that we should make cuts and we should stop helping indigenous people close the gaps on the reserve, addressing these harms and creating pathways to prosperity.

I also know, as a first nations person, that whenever there's money for indigenous people, there have always been those who are willing to take advantage. If you watch the Martin Scorsese movie, Killers of the Flower Moon, you could see that even when the indigenous people inherit great wealth, there are those who will do whatever they can to get their hands on that wealth.

How do we stop the abuses? That's the question here.

I think it's pretty straightforward when it comes to first nations. We have status band numbers, but how do we stop those from fraudulently claiming indigenous identity?

We had mentioned the Powley test. The Powley test has three important things. First is self-identification, which is pretty easy to say. I've always said I was indigenous.

There's also the ancestral connection. You could say that your grandmother or your great-grandmother was Métis or Inuit.

The third part is very difficult, under the Powley test. It's community acceptance.

How does the government verify when an individual says they passed this? Do they check a box and say that they've been accepted by this community? How does the government verify that, very specifically with Métis and Inuit?

Can you guys give us some thoughts around that?

[Jody Anderson]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Battiste.

The Prime Minister has stated over and over again that the relationship with indigenous people is the most important relationship to the Government of Canada. We often throw around this term of “reconciliation”, but I have to ask and challenge, what does that mean?

There is no reconciliation without “reconcili-action”. That means putting action behind a lot of the words and promises that have been said to date.

As for the strength of the indigenous communities, we have what's called the “moccasin telegram”. This is a very powerful tool that we use, in terms of the stewardship of our communities, people and businesses. We have the ability, as first nations and indigenous people, to reach out to the communities to indeed verify. This has been done in the past, particularly with academic people and other key folks who are claiming to be indigenous.

When we have the ability to do our own investigation and look into this, we often find the truth. I think that belongs with the indigenous community. It is up to us, not the federal government, to do that.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Ms. Anderson, as a first nations person, I know what you mean by the moccasin telegram, but if I was to put that in a recommendation, how would you describe that?

[Jody Anderson]

It's the power of community and the ability to reach out to community. In this, I guess the parallel would be that it's a small world and our communities are very small. We have the ability and power to reach out to our rights holders right across this country to verify both indigeneity and the workmanship of our community.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Do you think that should be led by a ministry, a committee or by the first nations and indigenous nations themselves?

[Jody Anderson]

Thank you.

My answer is that it always should be indigenous-led. Leading back to that, we see significant improvements when we are allowed to manage and develop our own institutions and policies.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Would anyone else like to add anything on how we can ensure proper verification?

[Shannin Metatawabin]

I would like to add that we have some great examples of organizations that have taken on the responsibilities provided to them by the Government of Canada and were vastly successful.

We need to do this. The First Nations Procurement Organization should be your mechanism to ensure that we verify business eligibility, using our tools that we've started to create with business definitions and beginning to work with the government to make that happen.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I don't believe I have a lot of time left, Mr. Chair, on this—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You can go for about another two minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Harold or Ernie, did you want to add anything to this on verification and how our government can work using indigenous-led models to help the verification process?

[Harold Calla]

The Government of Canada determines who's a Canadian citizen. A first nations government should be able to determine who its citizens are. That should be the threshold, in my view.

We're facing some severe challenges in our communities now because of Bill C-31, and memberships are declining. We have to be in a position where we start to address that issue of who is going to be a member of a first nation, or we're going to achieve what has been sought for a long time in my view, and that's the elimination of the Indian, because we won't have any status Indians if we're not careful.

We have to be in position. In our community, we know who the nations are. In the historical context, we would adopt people into our nation in much the same way somebody who comes to Canada can become a citizen of Canada by virtue of their participation here.

I think who is indigenous is something that can be left to first nations themselves and organizations like we're contemplating here, which can assist.

I will close by saying that what we need is reporting. What's coming down the line to all governments is the notion of reporting on some of these things. It would be something that you might be wise to look at, because we need to be in position. The international investment community is looking for confirmation that Canada is doing what it said it was going to do: implementing UNDRIP and doing these things. What we don't have is verifiable reporting.

I can tell you, through some of the work that we're doing around ESG with the international sustainability boards and CPA Canada, that there's a level of reporting that's going to come within two years that will surprise some people, but it will be very positive. It will allow for there to be a direct line of sight to some of the indicators that are supposed to be present in, for instance, economic reconciliation for first nations.

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

May I add something?

[Harold Calla]

Go ahead.

[Dawn Madahbee Leach]

We still have a racist policy in the Indian Act that removes membership of first nations people in subsections 6(1) and 6(2). They define who an indigenous person is. Today, they're still removing indigenous people as being first nations members because of these racist sections that still exist.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I would agree with you both. I invite you to read the op-ed that I released on June 21, which said exactly that; I'm in agreement, and I'm really glad that the government has taken steps, as of December, to change that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's wonderful.

Thank you very much, Mr. Battiste. We'll send you a bill for the advertising from the OGGO committee.

Witnesses present and online, thank you, sincerely. It's been a fantastic meeting. You've been wonderful, very informative witnesses, so thank you very much.

If you have any documents you wish to share or if you did not have time to answer any questions but wish to do so in writing, please send those to our clerk. They will be very welcome.

To my committee colleagues, thank you today as well for fantastic questions. I'm very proud of the questions you put forward today.

Again, I sincerely appreciate the answers and the time that you spent with us today.

With that—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I just want to thank you, on behalf of our side, for reallocating the time and allowing for those questions and the time for the witnesses to not only complete their thoughts but also to come up with clear recommendations.

On our behalf, thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's on behalf of all of us.

Thank you very much.

With that, we are adjourned.