Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, thank you for joining us again today.

In response to repeated questions from the committee, you've been very clear. You were asked whether, at any time, you talked to anyone about a desire to be relocated, and you gave an unequivocal one-word answer: never.

You can understand then why our committee is somewhat troubled and concerned by the fact that you seem to have misled us. Indeed, we later saw reports indicating that, on several occasions, you had expressed concerns that the old official residence was unsuitable. You expressed those comments to consulate employees. You said you made those comments casually, in passing. What concerns me, however, is that you were so categorical in stating that you'd never expressed any concerns to anyone about the old official residence. However, it turns out that's not true.

Even if you had made the occasional comment and you didn't expect them to be interpreted by employees as direction, why were you so categorical in your answers to the committee, when you said you'd never talked to anyone about the possibility of relocating?

[Thomas Clark]

I did not talk to anybody about relocating. My comments, casual as they may have been, were directed towards what I had to work with at 550 Park Avenue, in unit 12E.

I noted that there were problems with the furniture, for example, that made it very difficult for people with mobility or accessibility issues to use.

Regarding the family space—and this goes a bit further to explaining what I meant by that—there is in that apartment no designated family space other than the bedrooms. Everything else is representational.

I brought this up to say, as we have heard in previous testimony from officials of Global Affairs, that this is not an uncommon comment for incoming heads of missions. It is a problem with many official residences.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I understand your point of view.

That said, you just indicated in a previous response that you never asked to move or be relocated. However, when you repeatedly tell your staff that the official residence is inadequate, that the space and furniture aren't suitable, that it's not designed for a family and that accessibility is an issue, don't you think that could easily be interpreted as a desire to relocate?

[Thomas Clark]

I want to repeat that the process for relocating an official residence is not in the hands of the local head of mission or the staff of the mission in New York. It is entirely in the hands of the property division in Ottawa.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Understood, however, when you responded to the question from my colleague Mr. Jowhari, you said that you never talked about it to anyone at any time. Surely you can understand that, as parliamentarians and as a committee, we feel we've been misled by your testimony.

[Thomas Clark]

I can assure the member that everything that I have said and am saying now is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The decision to buy and sell the residences was taken by Ottawa. I had no role in that. I did not exert any influence, nor did I have the ability to exert any influence.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In that case, Mr. Clark, would you say that the newly acquired residence has everything you asked for?

[Thomas Clark]

Global Affairs Canada informs me that the new residence meets all the criteria that it has.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In other words, you're happier with the new residence than you were with the old one.

[Thomas Clark]

Mr. Chair, you will understand that it's not a question of my happiness. It wasn't a question of my unhappiness or my happiness. I go where I am told to go. Global Affairs decided to put a process in place, and it wanted to move the residence. That's where I'm going.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have one minute.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

To what extent does the official residence function as an essential or fundamental tool of the trade for a consul in New York?

[Thomas Clark]

That's a good question.

I find it very helpful for the type of work that I do. Very often, we convene, for example, dinners on particular subjects. We have access to some of the top brains in the United States, and we put them together with Canadians, with Quebeckers and with people from other provinces. It is a way for us to find a way in this very noisy environment in New York to be relevant to the conversation in North America, so it's a very important tool for me.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, gentlemen.

Next, we have Mr. Brock, please, for five minutes.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Tom Clark, at your last appearance, you were emphatic when you stated that you had nothing to do with the decision to sell the old official residence, you had nothing to do with the decision to buy the new official residence and you had nothing to do with deciding on its amenities or its location, so let's cut to the chase.

Since 2014, plans to repair the old, luxurious official residence on Park Ave were ongoing and repairs had commenced. No other prior head of mission had demanded an immediate replacement. On February 23, 2023, your buddy Justin Trudeau appointed you head of mission in New York City.

On April 27 of the same year, just a few months later, you hosted a reception for your buddy. You posted a video to social media of the two of you in a limousine.

Around the same time, you and your office informed GAC officials, according to an ATIP request, that “the property is not suitable for representational activities...it is not suitable as a residence, and”—and I'm going to highlight this—“requires immediate replacement”. I have it right here in the ATIP request, in black and white, Tom Clark. No other head of mission to New York City had issued that directive before, other than you, Tom Clark.

We also have the infamous email dated June 17, 2024, from Emily Nicholson, which states, “Both CNGNY HOM”—that's you, Tom Clark—“and staff have been instrumental throughout this process, with the HOM”—you, Tom Clark—“providing the greenlight for the selection of the new residence.”

After your lies were exposed, you wrote to this committee and you tried to explain that your comments to officials were made in passing. Tom Clark, that's another lie. Comments made in passing might include, “How's the weather?”, “How was your weekend?” or “I guess my appearance at committee is not going very well today.” Those are passing comments.

You issued a mandated direction to your staff that was communicated to GAC officials, that the official residence on Park Avenue needed an immediate replacement. Isn't that correct?

[Thomas Clark]

I feel I have to correct the record here.

Let me start by saying there was never a directive or a mandate from me to my staff whatsoever, by any—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Let's talk about who in your office you spoke with. I'm also looking at an article from the National Post, in which you indicated, “I also observed the issues between the family and representational spaces. I shared these views with the Consulate General administration”.

Who in administration did you communicate with? Give me names, please, and positions.

[Thomas Clark]

When I first saw the residence, I—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I want names, please—names.

[Thomas Clark]

When I first saw the residence, I was in the company of the MCO—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Clark, it's a direct question. Who are the officials in your office you spoke with and raised these concerns? Give me names, please.

[Thomas Clark]

I'm trying to tell you that. I am trying to say that when I arrived in New York and I saw the residence for the first time, I was—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Don't give me the history, Mr. Clark. Just give me the names of the officials in your office you spoke with. It is not a difficult question.

For the third time, give me names.