Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I understand the process now. We understand the mandate; we understand the input, and we also understand the augmented activities to consult locally. Now, as a result of that, there's a list of post offices—and I know there are other institutions, but we're talking about post offices—across Canada where they identified that they need to be able to offer bilingual services. Am I right to understand that?

[Carsten Quell]

As part of the exercise, it depends on the location. Let's take the example of the national capital region. All post offices are automatically bilingual, so nothing needs to be applied in terms of the regulations.

In other areas, they will need to take into account how many offices there are in a given service area and the percentage of the minority population. Then they move to saying that a percentage of those post offices, equal to or greater, has to be designated bilingual, but, before we as the institution go ahead and designate a particular office, we want to make sure that, for example, for francophones in a minority context, we consult them and find out which offices it makes the most sense to make bilingual, so that they can—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I have only about 15 seconds, and I just want to ask, aside from these 24 offices in the greater Montreal area, are there regions or cities across Canada that are now going to offer bilingual services, specifically French, as a result of this?

[Carsten Quell]

Absolutely, yes. Canada Post has a network of about 6,000 offices, and it applies across the country.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay, thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Jowhari.

Mrs. Vignola, go ahead, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Quell, you said earlier that the presence of anglophone schools demonstrated a stable anglophone presence in Quebec. What level of schools were you referring to?

[Carsten Quell]

These are schools that teach in the minority language.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's not what I want to know. Are we talking about primary schools, secondary schools, colleges or universities, or any and all educational institutions?

[Carsten Quell]

We're talking about primary and secondary schools.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

All right.

Are you aware that not all students' first language is necessarily English at those schools? They may be francophones whose parents or grandparents attended an English-language school, in accordance with Bill 101, or they could be allophones.

[Carsten Quell]

I'm familiar with the makeup of anglophone minority schools in Quebec in general, but I can't comment on the percentages of anglophones, allophones or francophones.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

About 3% of Quebec City's population is anglophone, and yet there is a brand-new anglophone school in Quebec City and another in Lévis. Two schools for such a percentage of the population is a much higher representation, not to mention the fact that those schools are generously funded. That gives you an idea of the disparities that can occur from the outset.

We're always talking about a united Canada from coast to coast and programs that apply from coast to coast. However, when it comes to official languages, particularly French, suddenly it doesn't apply from coast to coast, and there is a difference depending on the province. Yet, it has been said and you said earlier that French is a minority language in North America. This is a debate that we also held in the context of the new Official Languages Act and regulations.

I'd also like to go back to what you said about the regulations, because I'd like to remind you of our position. You said it was debated by parliamentarians, and that's true. We agreed to the regulations because they protected francophones outside Quebec. However, our position never changed as to the fact that it could be harmful to Quebec's francophones, since it favours a linguistic group that is a minority in Quebec, but a majority in Canada and North America.

Do you recall the many comments by my colleague from La Pointe-de-l'Île on this subject?

[Carsten Quell]

I had the privilege of attending meetings spent on the study of Bill C‑13, and I generally recall the remarks made by the colleague Mrs. Vignola just mentioned.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Earlier, you said that not all employees of a bilingual post office were required to be bilingual. However, I would like to draw your attention to a reality within Quebec. Quebeckers have the highest rate of bilingualism in Canada, at about 44%. I am among that number, along with my husband and our four children. In fact, we're even working on becoming multilingual.

Often, when bilingual francophones only hear English spoken in a workplace, they will automatically assume that the workplace is anglophone and, out of politeness and respect, they will request services in English. Others will demand services in French. That stems from a kind of fatigue—let's put it that way, to use parliamentary language—from constantly having to fight for one's own language.

When you're in an officially bilingual environment in Quebec and there is just one unilingual anglophone, what language do you think the other workers will speak?

[Carsten Quell]

I don't want to comment on a hypothetical scenario, but I can certainly say that the Government of Canada makes intense efforts to ensure that services are offered in the official language of the client's choice. That is known as active offer. We want to make sure that all clients feel comfortable using the official language of their choice, regardless of the language used by the service providers.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

What about employees, though? Shouldn't they also feel comfortable speaking French? I could give you a lengthy list of examples. People really like to talk to me about it.

[Carsten Quell]

I can certainly talk about the language of work situation in the public service. In some regions of the country, employees have the choice of using the official language of their choice. We make efforts to ensure that any employee in that situation has the freedom to speak in either official language.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Very well, I'll give you some concrete examples.

First, I'll tell you about a bilingual francophone who has the misfortune of speaking English with an accent. When a bilingual anglophone has an accent in French, not much is made of it, but francophones who speak English with an accent aren't so lucky. This person has tried several times to access positions at higher levels, but their applications were always unsuccessful, despite their skills and experience. However, a unilingual anglophone was accepted into such a position, on the condition that they promise to learn French within three years, which has still not happened.

Then, I can tell you about a person who was the only francophone in a group of anglophones to take part in a working session. She was bilingual, but there were technical terms for which she requested translation. The anglophones suggested that she leave the room and be briefed by them later, because it would be faster to hold the meeting without her than to try to translate everything.

That's also the reality for public servants. When a community is considered bilingual and there is a unilingual anglophone, francophones speak English with that person. Employees also lose the power to really choose their language in the workplace. Ultimately, clients who hear them speak English will also use that language. This is a reality that we have to recognize. When there is only one anglophone, francophones will speak English, but the reverse is not true. These are not scenarios or exceptions. That's important to understand. However, when people talk about it, they're cut down to size. This is true for employees as well as for members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mrs. Vignola.

Ms. Blaney, welcome back. The floor is yours for five minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's always good to be back in OGGO.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

My question is around the preamble of the Official Languages Act. It says that the government:

recognizes the importance of remedying the decline in the demographic weight of French linguistic minority communities, including by restoring and increasing their demographic weight

Considering that preamble, can you offer reflections on the fact that the act and its regulations treat French and English equally insofar as they concern the language designated at federal offices?

[Carsten Quell]

I will try to attempt a response here. Part of the question deals with the re-establishment of the demographic weight of francophone minority communities, where the government has committed to re-establishing the proportions that existed, I believe, in 1971.

The principal lever to achieve this, given that the demographic growth of Canada depends on immigration, is through the francophone immigration policy. That is the objective of the government, to ensure that francophone minority communities see the arrival of sufficient numbers of immigrants who will integrate into their community, so that over time the proportion of that community grows.

Now, when it comes to federal offices, of course, the offer of services to francophones in the minority context, including immigrants in the minority context, is a key aspect of ensuring that international immigrants will want to settle in Canada and will want to use the services that the federal government offers them in both official languages and, in particular, in French in the minority context.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

I'm really curious about how the consultations with minority language populations help federal institutions to fulfill their Official Language Act obligations to those communities.

[Carsten Quell]

Maybe I'll take a moment to talk about a project we're currently involved in, which is developing regulations on part VII of the Official Languages Act. This part of the Official Languages Act was substantially modified. There is a commitment both to ensuring that minority communities are supported and protecting and promoting the French language.

As part of this work, the government and our team are reaching out to minority communities. We are developing regulatory options, and we want to make sure the options we're developing are sensitive to the needs of minority communities across the country.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

Those are all the questions I have, Chair.