Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Did you at any time show a desire to move from the old building into the new building for a personal reason?

[Thomas Clark]

No, I did not.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm not sure how else to ask this question. Did you, at any time, have a conversation with the Prime Minister to say that it was time for you to move?

[Thomas Clark]

I never had a conversation with the Prime Minister about the old residence or the new residence at any time.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[Technical difficulty—Editor] the fact that this process has been going on for a long time, although [Technical difficulty—Editor] are there, and our analysts [Technical difficulty—Editor] put it in the report that we are hoping to publish very soon.

I want to go back to another line of questioning. About two weeks ago, there was an election in the U.S., and as you clearly indicated in your opening remarks, there is $6 trillion in trade, which is twice the GDP of Canada, and $200 billion in trade coming from just your office. That's almost 50% of our government budget. If you want to put it into perspective for Canadians, twice the GDP of Canada and 50% of the government's budget are things that you're managing. Can you tell me what you've been doing for the past two weeks, as a result of this change, to get ready?

[Thomas Clark]

My team and I have been extremely busy, as you can imagine. This week alone, I was on a two-and-a-half-day outreach trip in Pennsylvania, which took me to Erie and Pittsburgh. I had multiple meetings in both places. Right after this testimony, I'm off to Philadelphia for more meetings, and I'm giving a speech there tonight.

Our objective right now is to talk to as many people as we possibly can in the United States, fulfilling our mandate here of promoting and protecting Canadian interests in the United States. To give everybody an idea of the five states I'm responsible for, in four of those states, which are four of the biggest states, Canada is the number one customer. It's far above and beyond any other customer around the world. That is the level of importance Canada has in this region, and that is what we continue to promote and protect.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

How closely are you working with the committee of cabinet ministers that the Prime Minister has put together? How closely are you working with it vis-à-vis your jurisdiction?

[Thomas Clark]

What I do is feed information, analysis and intelligence through a system, so I don't deal directly with the committee, but I deal with our ambassador in Washington. I deal with Global Affairs in Ottawa in what we call the NGM.

It is my job to provide advice to the government, but through the structures that are in place, so I don't talk directly to the cabinet committee, nor have I talked to it. I don't talk to cabinet, but I feed information.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm sure our G7 partners are also preparing for this transition within two months. I'm sure there are a lot of conversations going on among consuls general.

Can you shed some light on the dynamic and the level of engagement Canada has as a key player within the G7?

[Thomas Clark]

Yes. We have probably one of the most dynamic missions in New York. This is the only area I can really talk about, because it's the one I know.

We're the largest here in New York because of the size of our relationship with the United States. I think, as I stated previously, we have many friends around the world in many different organizations, but here in New York, although they may be friends, they're also competitors, so there is a friendly competition, if you want.

Obviously, a place like New York is where Canadian companies would find investment money and the ability to grow and create more jobs. We see it as our job—at the federal level and the provincial level, and even at the municipal level—to help Canadians at whatever level they're trying to engage New York.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, gentlemen.

We'll go to Mrs. Vignola now, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, thank you for joining us once again. I have a few quick questions to ask you.

I reread the transcript of your previous appearance before this committee. At that time, you repeatedly said that you were not involved in the decision-making process.

Are you making a distinction between being involved in a decision-making process and expressing an opinion?

[Thomas Clark]

French is a beautiful language and I love it; however I'll speak in my mother tongue so as to be more precise.

I don't make the distinction on an operational basis. In other words, the decisions that are made by divisions in Global Affairs Canada, I have nothing to do with when it comes to the property.

In terms of casual comments that are made, whether they be about the office or the residence, I don't see a connection between those two. Certainly, they were never, ever intended to try to sway anything.

Madame, I just want to repeat very quickly that at no time did I ask that we change residences. That's an important point.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We also learned, in the last few meetings, that you visited the residence located at 111 West 57th Street.

Did you visit it before or after Global Affairs Canada signed the offer to buy it?

[Thomas Clark]

I made that visit after we made the offer to buy.

I'm sorry that I don't have the exact date with me. I know the official signature to buy the property was made in June. I had one visit to the property after we made the offer to buy. Between those two points is when I first saw the residence.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In short, even if you'd said, during your visit, that the residence wasn't right for you, that would have changed absolutely nothing since the offer to buy had already been made and signed.

[Thomas Clark]

The offer had been made. That is correct. The signature to finalize the purchase came later.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The fact remains that, at the time of your visit after the offer to buy was signed, even if you'd said it wasn't right for you, the process wouldn't have changed at all. Is that correct?

[Thomas Clark]

That is correct. It wouldn't have changed a thing.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Furthermore, we learned that the average sale price for a residence in New York was $1.6 million. When I ask what you could get for that, I was told a studio apartment.

In speaking with people, I thought that a consul general could live in a studio, since he doesn't have young children going to school, for example, or use the offices on Lexington Avenue for receptions.

Would that be feasible? Would that suitable over the long term, over a 60‑year period? You wouldn't be consul for 60 years. Usually appointments last four or five years. So, do you think, over the next 60 years, a studio would have been a suitable place to do business in New York?

[Thomas Clark]

No, I don't, and let me explain why.

Once again, as I said, we're in a competitive environment here. The residence for the consul general is a working residence. It's part of what we do in terms of whether we have dinners, meetings, seminars, receptions and all sorts of things. Take a look at where our competitors are. I think the United Kingdom spent $26 million on its residence, and the Italians spent $35 million on theirs. I'm talking about American dollars. In American dollars, we spent $6.5 million. You can see, already, that we are much smaller and more compact, and maybe more efficient than our competitors.

However, a small, personal apartment—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Clark. I apologize for interrupting you, however, I'd like to ask you one last question.

You freely and naively shared an opinion with an employee. It was based on one experience.

What challenges does the residence at 550 Park Avenue pose in terms of family and representational space?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'll ask for a brief answer, please.

[Thomas Clark]

The family space is very small. The official space is very big.

That's as briefly as I can put it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks very much.

Mr. Boulerice, go ahead, please.