Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Thomas Clark]

I made no direct complaint to the process. That is correct.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

That's “to the process”. I'll note that.

To be clear, in response to my colleague's questions, you testified that upon your arrival to the most important mission that Canada has, the first comments you made to those welcoming you were to express concerns about the residence you were in fact going to be living in.

I'll refer back to the ATIP. I won't quote it, because my colleague already did that. The first comments you made to those welcoming you were to express concerns regarding the completion of the renovation and the refurbishment project. You indicated it was “not suitable” to be the consul general's accommodations and that it did not have a floor plan that was ideal for representational activities.

You went on to say—and you've testified to it again today—that somehow there is absolutely no connection between making these comments, which were made to those greeting you, and the actions that took place and the decisions that were made following that. While you refuse to see the connection, I think your staff certainly understood the mission. They understood what they were hearing, and they absolutely understood that you were not happy with the accommodations. You were making those observations right from the get-go, and they needed to do something about that.

You've also stated time and time again that you did not ever talk to anyone about this, yet in your own letter.... You refused to admit that these comments were made to a colleague, and you said that you didn't say that, but it's in your letter.

Did you write the letter that was sent to this committee?

[Thomas Clark]

I did.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

In this letter, you said, “I was not aware until media reports this week that this comment made in passing to a colleague had been reported by the Consulate General”.

My colleague asked who that colleague was, and you said that you didn't make these comments to a colleague. Which is it?

Did you speak to a colleague or did you not?

[Thomas Clark]

I did, but, perhaps just for precision, could you tell me what comments you're referring to?

If the comments you're referring to are me saying that we need a new residence, that simply is not true. Perhaps—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I'm going to interrupt you there, Mr. Clark, because this letter you sent was all about the issue of the kind of influence you may have exerted over the purchase of this condominium. If you want to try to distract and confuse, I'm just going to use the time I have to keep us on task here.

We have received emails and official documents that indicated that you were instrumental in getting the ball rolling on the purchase of the new residence. That's why you hurriedly wrote this letter. It was to say the comments that were made were only made in passing. I think we've already debunked the theory that you were only making comments in passing, especially since they were comments made upon your arrival. We also have the official report from Global Affairs Canada.

Mr. Clark, the issue we are facing here is that you have obviously and shamelessly lied to this committee on multiple occasions.

My question for you right now is, why don't you just come clean with this committee and Canadians, admit you've lied, follow in Randy Boissonnault's footsteps and resign?

[Thomas Clark]

Once again, under oath, I can tell you that everything I have said is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I cede the remaining seconds I have to my colleague.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

Given this testimony, I'm looking for unanimous consent to call Mr. Mario Bot, Mr. Christopher Veenstra, and the author of the international platform report, Ms. Kristy Fleet.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Sousa.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Clark, thank you for being here.

I want to verify a couple of things. I'm going to reset my time, so that I can monitor this.

A lot of allegations are being made against you. A lot of people are trying to accuse you of lying, and a lot of others are trying to misinform on the issue.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Point of order, Chair.

There is no interpretation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm going to stop the clock. We have an interpretation issue. Hold on, Mr. Sousa.

Go ahead, Charles.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Clark, do you have anything to gain by the purchase and sale of this property?

[Thomas Clark]

This property was not bought for me. It was bought for Canada. It will be the residence of consuls general for many decades to come.

It was not bought for me. What else can I say?

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Clark, regarding the consuls general before you, have they not related and conveyed the status of the former residence to other officials, its state of affairs?

[Thomas Clark]

Yes, going back to at least 2014.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

I have had the opportunity to use that residence on many occasions in the past, with Conservative-appointed consuls general who complained about the status of that residence to accommodate receptions and do the official functions. As well, they recognized that there was a need for improvement.

Did you feel that when you first moved in?

[Thomas Clark]

What I felt when I moved in was, number one, I didn't accept this commission on behalf of Canada because of the accommodation. I went where I was told to go. I made casual comments about the usefulness of it. I never said that we should sell it, that we should move on, that we should do anything. It was just a normal, casual observation when you walk into a new place and you see what it is, especially after you've used it a couple of times.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Clark, my point is that, as the tenant of the residence, it's appropriate to discuss the status of the property in order to accommodate the use of that property for yourself and your staff.

I think members in the opposition do that all the time with their offices and their residences and their appropriations of the allocation of those resources.

At the same time, Mr. Clark, when you have those discussions, is it appropriate as the tenant to share them?

[Thomas Clark]

Absolutely. I don't know what would be wrong with that. Again, it's outside of a process. It has nothing to do with the process of looking at buying or selling residences. It's simply where you end up and what you see.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Clark, I'm going to ask these questions again: Did you have influence in making the decision to sell or buy?

[Thomas Clark]

No.

[Charles Sousa, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Did you actually approve any decisions to sell or buy?

[Thomas Clark]

No.