Evidence of meeting #158 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was procurement.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
I would just say that the integrity of being an indigenous person in this country, it is a solemn identity and it shouldn't be used for political, personal, private or economic gain. It's unfortunate that it continues to be the case not only in the House of Commons, but across this country.
Conservative
December 5th, 2024 / 12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair
Welcome to our witnesses. Thank you for your testimony. Thank you for talking about some of the critical issues we are facing and for some of the key recommendations you made. I'm hoping these will make it into the report and we'll have a solid base to work from going forward.
President Obed, you recently announced the next step for an Inuit Nunangat university. I found that very interesting. One of the themes I believe I heard was there are a lot of opportunities, but we don't have the capacity. Capacity building needs to be one of the cornerstones of our being able not only to play within indigenous procurement, but also to play outside of the box of indigenous procurement. There were some witnesses who talked about the fact that they don't have to play in the indigenous procurement strategy. They go out and because of their capability, they can....
You are announcing a university, specifically an Inuit Nunangat university. First, congratulations. Second, how do you think this institution will work at the intersection of capacity building and economic opportunities for the Inuit?
President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
I'm always happy to talk about our university. First and foremost, it will be an Inuit-governed institution. It will be open to whichever students wish to apply, but it will be governed through a mix of independence and with links to Inuit treaty organizations in that self-determined process.
It will be a particular opportunity for a particular type of student. We have university courses, which are often relationships between southern-based universities and governments, to provide, say, nursing, bachelor of education or law programs. Those graduates do wonderful things in our communities. We hope to create six disciplines which are holistic but get us to the very key considerations for the building of our society, greater prosperity and success within our communities and, whether that be in business, government or research, running the gamut of those things.
We hope to open the doors to Inuit Nunangat university in 2030. We have a lot of work to do. We're hoping there will be federal legislation that will underpin the creation of the university. We're hoping to have relationships with other universities so that we can have transferable degrees, or to be a part of Universities Canada.
We want to have an Inuit-specific opportunity that will produce graduates who will be ready to take on opportunities such as the procurement opportunities in this country. We want, first and foremost, to create a degree that is globally recognized, is transferable within the country and that can be another lever towards prosperity within our society. The very wonderful idea is that you wouldn't have to leave your jurisdiction, culture and language behind in order to get the skills to be successful in whatever field you choose to go into in this country.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
I'm glad you touched on that.
You mentioned there are six principal areas that the university is focusing on. Can you quickly touch on those six areas and on how they relate to ensuring the sustainability and growth of the Inuit community?
President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
In the draft disciplines, which are still frameworks at this stage, we imagine there will be, say, a discipline of family and relationships, of community and community well-being, of governance and of relationships. Within those broad discipline areas, you get into the types of degrees that you might understand. A business degree would flow through cultural-based entrepreneurship. A bachelor's in nursing would flow through being grounded in community, community wellness and Inuit traditional healing in order to get to a degree that can then be used wherever that person chooses to apply that degree. We imagine—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm sorry, Mr. Obed, but I have to cut you off there. You're out of time.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
I just want to commend you on the initiative. It is a great initiative.
Bloc
Marilène Gill Bloc Manicouagan, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Jaime, Mr. Obed and Mr. David, I left more general questions for the end. I'd like to hear your recommendations, even though you've already talked about some of them. Everyone brought up equity, but not necessarily equality, although we did talk about that as well. Transparency is something else that was mentioned. I believe it was Mr. David who said it was necessary to have some degree of transparency in reporting and the processes.
Could you talk more about how to implement that on a practical level? Procurement is the main topic of today's meeting, so could you also give us some recommendations related to procurement?
President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
First, in relation to transparency and accountability, we are running into a really interesting problem. We have a very defined constitutional status. We have a very defined relationship with the Government of Canada.
We are up against something that is almost nebulous. It doesn't have a centre. The groups we often end up fighting don't have the same constitutionally protected status that we have. They don't have agreements or recognition of status, but they are somehow in the same catchment for eligibility for procurement, education or other benefits.
Unfortunately, there is a political element to this. Somehow, in the governing of this country, in the relationship between the Crown and Inuit, we have to figure out how to overcome the very real political challenges of the consequence of any government telling somebody or a collective they aren't indigenous, even though it's in the business of doing it every day.
With regard to the recommendations on procurement, we can give a comprehensive list to the committee. First and foremost, we know some of the barriers. Often, the barriers, as I mentioned previously, are in the structure of the procurement opportunity. It almost imagines a successful bidder and excludes any number of factors that are often present in our communities, whether they be scale, lumping together a number of different opportunities into one or the specific requirements of the successful proponent.
We need to be more understanding of the space that first nations, Inuit and Métis businesses are in and ensure that we can unlock their potential without undermining the success of the opportunity itself.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you very much.
Ms. Idlout, go ahead, please, for two and a half minutes. We'll then go to Mr. Genuis and Mr. Sousa, and then back to Ms. Gill and you to finish the day.
NDP
Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU
Qujannamiik, Iksivautaq.
I'll be directing my question to President Natan Obed.
Before you became the president of ITK, you worked at Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated. My questions will be related to your experience at NTI because of this study focusing on federal contracting with indigenous businesses. With NTI being a part of the board of ITK, I think you'll be able to answer my questions.
I had hoped to ask these questions of Paul Irngaut, who I see would have been a witness if there hadn't been technical difficulties, but I feel you can provide equally important testimony regarding the Nunavut agreement and article 24.
I wonder if you could share with us the federal government's management of its procurement obligations under article 24 of the Nunavut agreement.
Qujannamiik.
President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
I appreciate your faith in me, MP Idlout, to be able to do that faithfully. I know that Nunavut Tunngavik is going to reschedule its appearance here, so I will leave the majority of that question to NTI and its expertise.
I've been in contact with NTI reps during this hour, and I want to clarify that there are specific Nunavut agreements. Especially, there's the “Procurement Activity Report”, which allows for Nunavut to understand the number of procurement opportunities that Nunavut may take advantage of in that jurisdiction. It stands at over 52.5%, which is quite an excellent number for Nunavut.
There still are no national numbers, so we don't have a broader picture. However, because of article 24 and because of the relationship between NTI and the Government of Canada, there have been opportunities for Nunavut to get ahead in certain areas, such as when understanding the level of procurement that Nunavut Inuit are able to take advantage of.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We will have one last intervention for you.
Mr. Genuis, go ahead, please, for five minutes.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Thank you, Chair.
Again, I am struck by and want to come back to the issue of the lack of consequences for indigenous identity fraud. We've heard today about how the government has an incentive to try to make the numbers look better than they are for indigenous procurement, and I think that is what we are seeing.
Witnesses, do you think, at a minimum, it would be reasonable that any company that engaged in indigenous identity fraud should be barred from accessing government contracts going forward?
What we've seen in the past is they were engaging in indigenous identity fraud, so they were taken off the indigenous business directory, but they're are able to bid on other government contracts. Do you think it's reasonable, at a minimum, to say that if you engage in indigenous identity fraud, you can't bid on any government contracts going forward?
President, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
Perhaps, if we're just imagining what the consequences.... I hope there are severe consequences for any business. If they take the form of not being eligible to bid on other contracts, that could be a great avenue to pursue.
Somehow, we have to come up with a consequence that is severe enough to end this practice of trying to figure out exactly how far businesses can push it in order to get a leg-up without having an actual indigenous component to their business.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Yes. Thank you.
Based on that feedback and what we've heard from other witnesses, I have a motion, which has been on notice for a long time, so members have seen it. I'll move it now, and I think we'll dispose of it quickly.
I move:
That the committee report to the House its recommendation that companies who engage in Indigenous Identity Fraud should be barred from accessing any government contracts.
