Government Operations Committee on June 10th, 2022

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you for raising this issue. We know it's an important one to Canadians.

Ongoing investments have been and will continue to be made in IT cybersecurity to deliver enterprise services and solutions for the Government of Canada. As we grow more dependent on digital systems, the potential consequences of cyber-incidents continue to increase, and Canada needs to be ready.

Similarly, for the Government of Canada end points, the end point visibility and awareness project will allow SSC partners, clients and enterprise organizations to ensure that end points on SSC government networks are properly identified, tracked, managed and secured. The security enhancements that these types of projects bring to the IT infrastructure reduce the threat landscape and attack surface, thereby reducing the risk to government data.

SSC is also investing in the delivery of cyber and IT solutions, in support of the government's digital vision to move towards a zero-trust framework. Based on the premise of don't trust but verify, zero-trust architecture is a security framework that protects dataflow between the user and the device or application through continuous monitoring. That consists of applying behavioural analytics and other oversight monitoring to each access decision-making point to ensure full compliance with established security requirements.

Then also, in 2018, the government launched the national cybersecurity strategy, which is working to keep Canadians safe from evolving cybersecurity threats that target Canadians and Canadian businesses and our critical infrastructure.

Finally, in budget 2022, we propose to provide approximately $875 million over five years, beginning in 2022-23, and approximately $238 million ongoing for additional measures to address the rapidly evolving cybersecurity threat landscape.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I'll quickly move into cyber-attack responses.

Minister, as I'm sure you're aware, the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians published a special report on February 14, 2022, focused on the issue of defending the Government of Canada's system and networks from cyber-attacks. There were were a number of calls made in this report around cybersecurity and recommended next steps.

What kind of investment can our government point to as it relates to addressing the issues raised?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

It is important to note that Shared Services Canada is committed to protecting the confidentiality, integrity and availability of digital services to Canadians. It is also important to note that a number of small departments and agencies recommended in the report don't fall under SSC's umbrella.

In budget 2022, it was announced that SSC and CSE will be allocated approximately $178 million over five years. That will be allocated to SSC and the Communications Security Establishment starting in 2022-23 to expand cybersecurity protection for small departments, agencies and Crown corporations, and to provide them with the most secure and cost-effective solutions to meet the needs and expectations of digital government.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the extra time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

It's good to see Ms. Vignola back. We'll go to Ms. Vignola for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, in your speech, you noted how seriously you take cyber attacks, and you just mentioned it again. You also mentioned that the government wants more flexibility and mobility in terms of information technology solutions. At the same time, it’s trying to develop networks accessible at any time and place, by anyone on a secure platform.

But if a platform, even a secure one, is accessible to anyone, that means it can be accessible to people and networks that carry out cyber attacks.

Where do most of the cyber attacks on Canada come from?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, MP Vignola. It is good to see you. I hope that you're feeling better. I'm happy you have made it to today's meeting.

I would reaffirm that cybersecurity is important to our government. We know that we want to have the protection that's needed.

That's a very specific question that I would like to ask my officials to respond to, with respect to the nature of the greatest area of attack.

[Sony Perron, President, Shared Services Canada]

Mr. Chair, this question goes back to the point the minister was making a little earlier, which is that cyber security is a partnership within the Government of Canada. Our colleagues at the Cyber Security Centre are responsible for monitoring what’s going on out there and informing us of the risks and vulnerabilities we face.

Shared Services Canada cannot easily respond to the source of attacks. Our work starts from the moment they affect our environment, and we...

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Among cyber attacks targeting Canada, were there any ransomware attacks, yes or no?

[Sony Perron]

To my knowledge, when it comes to the services we provide in our department, no organization was targeted directly.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Does the government use professional hackers to test the strength of the network and software that are supposed to protect the private information of both citizens and businesses, as well as the government’s confidential information?

[Sony Perron]

Shared Services Canada doesn’t use that kind of service. We have our own resources to check our networks and equipment and detect vulnerabilities.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you kindly.

Minister, in Supplementary Estimates (A), Shared Services Canada is requesting that $86 million be added to the total requested in the Main Estimates.

Among new security approaches justifying a request for an additional $86 million, are we talking about hiring professional hackers to test said security approaches, networks and software?

[Sony Perron]

Mr. Chair, with your permission, I’ll answer the member’s question.

No, that’s not included in planned activities to use the $86 million mentioned in Supplementary Estimates (A).

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Minister, on page 2-32 of the supplementary estimates, Shared Services Canada is requesting $40,489,098 in Vote 1(a), an operating appropriation, and $20,189,092 in Vote 5(a), a capital appropriation.

What is included in the term “network modernization”?

Does it refer to physical infrastructure?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you for the question.

This will enable a digital-ready network that's critical to supporting a digital government, as well as network utilities. It's going to meet the increasing demand for higher bandwidth for users, reduce single points of failure and promote readiness to adopt emerging technology in response to persistent digital demand. It will ensure that SSC can deliver a response to modern network services that support government operations.

We know that of course there has been an increase since COVID-19 in demands with respect to the platforms and the programs that have been provided. We want to ensure that we have the supports so that these can continue to be provided.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Over the last 10 years, hundreds of millions of dollars were invested to modernize the network. How many tens of millions more will we need to finally modernize the network to the point where it will only need occasional updates, instead of a complete overhaul?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

What I would say in response to that is that this is of course an ongoing goal. We always want to make sure that we have up-to-date systems that are going to meet the needs of government.

With respect to the specifics on an end date and timeline, I would hand it over to my officials.

[Sony Perron]

Thank you, minister.

Mr. Chair, there isn’t really an answer to that question. We will never be done updating and modernizing networks. New technological opportunities, new demands and new expectations from the citizenry mean that what is needed today will be very different from what was needed five years ago and what will be needed five years from now.

The ongoing effort to modernize, refresh and reinforce our defences, as well as to modernize our infrastructure and make it more reliable, will never end. These are new projects, new initiatives. We want to stay connected to future technology. Take cloud computing, for example. We’re only on the first few years of using it, and it requires constant changes.

Unfortunately, I can’t give you an end date. We will continue to make sustained efforts in this area.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for six minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Minister, part of what we're talking about today in the supplementary estimates is $26 million for the Privy Council Office.

Last year, the Privy Council Office paid for polling about possible service cuts at Canada Post. Is some of this money going to be used for polling at the Privy Council Office, and are you going to be doing polling regarding your strategies to address the toxic drug crisis, such as decriminalization?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thanks, MP Johns, for those questions.

Let me say, just to clarify on the polling piece with respect to Canada Post, because I know this was a concern for you and you've raised it and voiced that concern, the polling is done really to get a sense of what Canadians feel the service they need from Canada Post is. We want to ensure, as do I particularly as the minister responsible for Canada Post, that the services that are most valued to Canadians are being provided to Canadians. That information piece is important, because it will help support the initiatives and measures that we put in place as we move forward.

I will say that I will commit to working with Canada Post to get to a point where they are self-sustaining.

With respect to the specific question, I would put that to my officials in terms of any dollars.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I just want to be assured, Minister, that in terms of ethics, you're not doing polling using taxpayers' dollars to make policy from the Privy Council Office on really important decisions.

On remote work, is there any funding in the supplementary estimates intended to facilitate public servants working from home, and has the department conducted an analysis of how continued remote work may generate cost savings or emission reductions?

Lastly, in the same question, is the department exploring whether continued remote work may increase the supply of surplus federal properties that could be made available to meet some of the housing demands and needs that we have right now in our communities?

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Those are excellent questions. Thank you for those.

With respect to SSC, I would say it continues to work with partners to implement the technology and network upgrades necessary to enable effective communication and collaboration tools for government employees.

I do want to take this time to commend them. We had to turn this around in very short order, and I want to thank all the officials who worked very hard.

Right now, we are continuing to make significant upgrades to networks and boardrooms to enable employees to collaborate from work sites, so that their remote colleagues will be able to have the bandwidth to have the intensive video-conferencing tools. This is to support the hybrid model. We know the return to work is going to be different. What we're hearing is that, with return to work, there is some preference for some form of remote work, so we are working and keeping a close eye on this and monitoring the situation.

With respect to your last question, part of the question was very important. Yes, we will continue to monitor the sites that we have, determine what the future workforce is going to look like and, if there's any room for efficiency, if there's room for us to use properties, for example, for affordable housing projects, we will closely take a look at that because it's an important priority for our government.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It is an urgent situation for housing throughout our country, especially here in the nation's capital.

Minister, in this year's budget, the government announced a strategic policy review of the public service, hoping to find billions of dollars in savings. Your colleague, the President of the Treasury Board, said this review is meant to make the government smarter and not smaller. Meanwhile, public servants are being offered wage increases that don't keep up with inflation, which would amount to a pay cut.

Is the government looking for savings on the backs of public servants? The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism and Associate Minister of Finance just cited in the House of Commons this morning that Canadians are seeing an average wage increase of 4%.

Is that something you're looking at for the public service, giving a wage increase of 4%?