Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2022

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

That's very high praise.

Thank you very much, Minister, for joining us here today.

I'm going to move on to my questions for the department officials.

I was having a conversation with the minister about inflationary spending and then, of course, wasteful spending.

My topic today, which I would like to focus on with you, is transparency. As always, I have a couple of articles in my hands. The first one is an article by Ken Rubin that was published in The Globe and Mail. It says, “Access to information in Canada is broken beyond repair.” This might in fact be how our fantastic chair has gotten a lot of his information through the years.

The second article is by Tom Cardoso and is also in The Globe and Mail. The title is “Ottawa cites translation, accessibility costs as reason for keeping documents from public”, which is something that we're unfortunately seeing with the ArriveCAN investigation as well here at OGGO.

My first question for you, then, is, what role does Treasury Board play in ensuring that ATIP divisions in every department and agency are well resourced and well financed, please?

[Kelly Acton, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Performance Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Good morning.

The Treasury Board Secretariat is the policy centre for access to information and privacy operations across government, providing everything from policy guidance and instituting legislative change, such as the recent changes to Bill C-58, and then on through to community development and support training and that kind of thing.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Why are departments having such great difficulty in maintaining adequate service delivery for ATIP requests? What is the Treasury Board doing to fix this cross-department issue, please?

[Kelly Acton]

There are just over 200 institutions that currently fall under the Access to Information Act. That does include Crown corporations and wholly owned subsidiaries. It's quite a variety of organizations.

I think the most recently published statistics had the proportion of requests that were closed within legislative timelines at about 70%, so there is work to do. The Treasury Board Secretariat has been working with institutions across government on everything from making available new and more modern processing tools to really transform what are quite analog and paper-based systems, to also, on the tech front, standing up a new ATIP online portal this summer, a modernized platform, and, as I said, moving to support the community through such things as a community development office launched earlier this year.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Do you feel you are adequately resourced in an effort to deliver those new technologies that you're talking about? What type of timeline would we be looking at for the delivery of these being available for use?

[Kelly Acton]

The modernized ATIP online platform launched in July, and the vast majority of institutions are onboarded to the portal. There are a number of departments, which are among the larger requesters, that still need to come on board, but plans are advancing to have that happen.

The procurement that made available these new tools was completed earlier this year, and they are available now to departments. Again, departments are making plans to avail themselves of those new tools.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay. It would be safe to say, then, that you anticipate there will be a day when you meet normal service delivery timelines for ATIP requests.

[Kelly Acton]

It is a legal obligation for institutions to—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

It's legal, but it's not being met, unfortunately.

One recommendation to improve the efficiency of ATIP requests is to publish requests on the website. In your opinion, why doesn't the government currently do that?

[Kelly Acton]

Currently there are summaries, posted in both official languages, of all completed ATIP requests. We have been working for a period of time to see what more could be done in terms of making available completed requests more broadly. As you will be aware, in the publication of all of our government information online....

It has to be in both official languages.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Mr. Jowhari, you are next, please.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the officials. I'm not sure who is going to respond, but I will table the question.

The supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23 are requesting $25.8 billion in both of the authorities, compared to $2.8 billion in supplementary estimates (B) for 2021-22 and about $1.3 billion for 2021. Why is there such a huge difference between this year, last year and the year before?

[Annie Boudreau]

Thank you very much for the question.

As the minister was explaining at the beginning, this is a cycle. As you know, we table main estimates on March 1 of every year. After that, we have supplementary estimates (A), (B) and (C).

This year, supplementary estimates (A) was smaller than normal. That's why we have in supplementary estimates (B) this year a big amount. It is $20.8 billion in both of the authorities. I know that the PBO referred to $25 billion, but that includes statutory authorities.

If you look at the sum of supplementary estimates (A) and (B) compared to last year, we are at the same point in time—the same level of authorities.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you. That was a great explanation.

These supplementary estimates also include 25 horizontal items, totalling nearly $2 billion, of which 14 are budget 2022 initiatives. What would explain the high number of budget 2022 initiatives structured as horizontal items?

[Annie Boudreau]

As I was explaining, a lot of budget 2022 items are included in supplementary estimates (B). It's a question of timing, when the federal budget was released in April and when it was time for organizations to be able to define their implementation strategies and come to the Treasury Board in order to have access to the authorities.

You are right. We have 25 items, and there was a schedule that was published the same day as the tabling of the supplementary estimates (B). As referred to in the PBO report, 90% of budget 2022, if we add supplementary estimates (A) and (B), is included in the estimates that you have in front of you.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

That was a great answer.

You talked about the PBO. There was a note made by the PBO that there's a discrepancy between the fall economic statement and the supplementary estimates (B). That discrepancy is a large amount. I believe it's into $20 billion-plus.

Can you shed some light on why there's such a discrepancy and how it could be explained in a very simple way to the Canadians who are interested?

[Annie Boudreau]

In the book that I keep referring to, there is, in section 1, a section called “Comparison of the Fall Economic Statement 2022 and Estimates”.

I will explain the difference. Basically, the big amount will be the employment insurance benefits. They are included in the fall economic statement, but they are not included here because we don't need the approval of Parliament for that. We also have the Canada child benefit, which I was referring to earlier on another question, which is also not included in these estimates.

We also have what we call accrual accounting, so some of the expenditures or authorities have been included in another document. For example, in the fall economic statement of 2021, there was an amount of about $20 billion put aside for Indigenous Services Canada for funding services for the CHRT ruling. This amount was included in last year's forecast, but was only included in this year's main estimates.

For all those adjustments, it is basically a timing difference, and it is well explained in part 1 of that document.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I have about 30 seconds, and I'll be remiss if I don't ask about digital credentials. I believe that's going to Mr. Wagner.

Can you give us your plans for digital credentials, sir?

[Paul Wagner, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategy and Transformation, Treasury Board Secretariat]

We continue to evolve the digital credential program within the federal government. There have been some important pieces since the last time I addressed this committee. We're moving quite rapidly with our provincial partners at establishing a national framework for leveraging digital credentials, and many of the provinces are already using those digital credentials.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Wagner, I'm sorry; we're out of time.

Mrs. Vignola, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Boudreau, if I am wrong to ask you the following questions, I urge the appropriate individual to answer them.

In terms of horizontal items, $675.1 million is earmarked for resettling Afghan refugees. That's great news. However. many communities have a lot of needs right now.

I have four short questions.

What measures will be introduced to resettle Afghan refugees and how will the $675.1 million be used?

How much is earmarked to resettle Ukrainian refugees?

How much is earmarked to combat the illegal smugglers who make life hell for immigrants crossing over at Roxham Road?

How much is earmarked to ensure that immigrants crossing over at Roxham Road get a better welcome, and by that I mean we refer them to legal services that suit their circumstances, rather than handcuffing them upon arrival and putting them at a high risk of homelessness?

[Annie Boudreau]

Thank you very much for your questions.

First, I'd like to say that immigration isn't solely funded by horizontal items. Obviously, other line items fall under the Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship as well. There's a section that deals with Ukraine and the Afghan refugees, foreign aid to developing countries and broader immigration measures.

I will now go back to your question about Ukraine. We have $184.4 million going to immigration and settlement measures, temporary accommodations and income support for Ukrainians. In addition, $151.7 million was provided to advance Ukraine's resilience and early recovery, including humanitarian assistance and de‑mining support.

With respect to Afghan refugees, $658.5 million is provided for resettlement, including processing of new permanent resident admissions, settlement services, security and law enforcement activities, and health screening and assessment.

With respect to foreign aid for developing countries, $732 million is provided to support access by those countries to vaccines, therapeutics and diagnostics to fight COVID‑19.

In addition, $250 million is provided to respond to the global food and nutrition crisis—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, I saw those figures as well.

With respect to the Roxham Road situation, is anything being done to ensure that migrants are no longer victimized by smugglers, that they are properly received, that they are no longer handcuffed when they arrive, and that they are less likely to be at a high risk of homelessness?

[Annie Boudreau]

My last point may answer your question.