Government Operations Committee on Nov. 21st, 2022

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Going back to my question to the minister regarding the greening government fund, can you speak to how much funding has been released through this fund, for example, to promote experimentation, initiatives or programs in greening government?

I noticed that there was a line item for $50,000 that was included, a transfer by the Privy Council and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to TB for this fund. Could you speak to that as well?

[Karen Cahill, Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start with your question with respect to PCO's contribution towards the greening government fund. This is a contribution that departments that generate over 1,000 tonnes of GHGs are required to provide to the fund. The contribution from PCO is their normal contribution towards any projects related to greening government.

With respect to how much has been spent, I'll have to come back to you with a written answer.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Mr. Chair, am I in the red again?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

No, you've paid back 11 seconds. Thank you very much.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We're going to go over to Mrs. Kusie.

Keep in mind that it looks like we will be interrupted by the bells in about two or three minutes, but we'll continue on with your time.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I've heard that before, that bells ring when I talk. I'm just kidding.

I'm going to go back to a question I asked the minister.

Does the Treasury Board know how much it cost to maintain and operate every government building in the national capital region, please?

[Samantha Tattersall]

PSPC is responsible for the management of office space, so I know that they're actively working with each of the departments to understand what their hybrid plans will be so they can have a portfolio approach to what they will keep and what they may dispose of.

That would be a question that PSPC would need to answer, as they're the general manager for office space.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

I always struggle with that. As the former consul for Canada to Dallas, Texas, I had the fortune or misfortune of Minister Baird's coming to visit me at the time, and I lost my residence shortly thereafter. Anyway, such can the case be.

Does Treasury Board track vacancy levels for office space in the national capital region? I think you kind of addressed that in your last question there. I was going to ask further questions about the cost to maintain and operate the space.

I'm going to go to some of the expenses as reported in both the public accounts and the supplementary estimates to see if anyone can offer any insight as to the specific expenditures.

There's $6,929 at Global Affairs Canada that resulted from the “[l]oss, theft or misappropriation of cash receipt and petty cash fund”. Again, having come from that department for close to 15 years, I can well imagine any comments on that.

The second one I want to mention is $8,500 to Rebel News for not allowing them to participate in the leaders debate. As a Conservative, I have to admit that I'm not the biggest fan of Rebel News, but we always talk about a fair and democratic system, so it's very interesting to me that they sort of received hush money from the government, so to speak.

There's $149,712 on behalf of the Department of National Defence to Enterprise for damage to rental vehicles. Do you have any insight as to this expenditure, please?

[Monia Lahaie, Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

In the public accounts, volume III, you can see all the amounts that were paid out. Every year, there are situations where vehicles and property get damaged. We are committed to full transparency on this, with good internal controls, so you can all be aware of exactly what's happening.

For more details on this specific request, you would have to go to DND.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much, Ms. Lahaie.

I hope my counterpart, Michael Barrett, is listening to this: $191,414 in funding for legal services out of the Privy Council Office. Is there any commentary on that at all? Okay.

There is $1,439,398 for the recovery of payment for parking tickets out of CSIS—out of the intelligence service. My goodness, intelligence is expensive parking work.

Is there any commentary on that?

[Monia Lahaie]

Again, the internal control framework in the department ensures the proper controls are in place. For specifics on the “why” for this parking ticket reimbursement, you would have to go to the department.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you.

Finally, as my time is coming to a close, there's $21,675 from the Canada Revenue Agency, an amount not to be recovered, due to employees fraudulently claiming travel, relocation or overtime. That's worrisome, as well. Who knows, perhaps with the whistle-blower legislation we'll see more of this, or perhaps we'll see less of this.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mrs. Kusie.

Go ahead, Ms. Thompson.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I'm going to reference the supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23. That estimate includes five measures from budget 2022.

What percentage of budget 2022 measures have been presented in supplementary estimates, so far?

[Annie Boudreau]

Thank you.

I'm going to give you a number that differs from the number you saw in the PBO report, because my number is based on voted authorities, while the PBO report is based on all of them, including legislated amounts.

As of today, if we include the main estimates and the supplementary estimates (A) and (B), about 71% of budget 2022 items or measures have been included in the document, for you to approve the authorities.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you. I appreciate the clarification.

Do you expect other budget 2022 measures to be presented in subsequent supplementary estimates this year?

[Annie Boudreau]

Absolutely. The last one we're going to present is supplementary estimates (C). It's going to be tabled in March of next year. We are probably going to see some items coming from budget 2022.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I'm going to switch topics.

The last time you presented to committee, you spoke about indigenous entrepreneurship. Are you able to give us an update on what's happening on the file and in the work?

[Samantha Tattersall]

The indigenous 5%, as the minister indicated, is being implemented over a three-year time frame. We're in the first year of implementation, so we'll have the results after the end of this fiscal year.

We have been working with PSPC and ISC to do a number of things to support our procurement officers in undertaking those procurements, including new mandatory training and outreach. PSPC is updating its supply arrangements and standing offers, so we can have more existing vehicles going out and procuring with indigenous businesses. Our colleagues at ISC are taking steps to work with indigenous communities in building their capacity, so they can also participate in our procurements.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

If I can move to a slightly different topic, could you explain why public accounts take longer to produce than provincial accounts?

[Monia Lahaie]

One of the main reasons is the size of the public accounts. We have over 2,500 pages, compared to the smaller reports from provinces. There is also bigger work for audit purposes. It's the biggest audit in the country. It also takes a bit longer for us to complete. We have a requirement to publish in multiple formats, and we have to ensure accessibility, which is not necessarily required across all provinces, for example. That's my understanding. These are the main reasons it takes longer to prepare.

There is also when they can table. Some provinces can table earlier, because they don't have to do it when the government is sitting. That's another difference.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

Are you able to give an update on where we are with the Phoenix pay system?

[Carole Bidal, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Employee Relations and Total Compensation, Treasury Board Secretariat]

With respect to the Phoenix pay system, we are continuing to work toward ensuring that every public servant is paid accurately and on time. The government has implemented a series of measures and made consistent progress to address existing pay issues and minimize—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Ms. Bidal. I have to interrupt for a couple of seconds.

The bells are ringing now. I want to make sure that we are in agreement to continue along until 10 to one.

Do we have everyone's agreement?