I have to say that the federal public service is a calling. It always has been. We put up with a lot of things because we see value in the work we do on behalf of Canadians. When our hands are tied, say, for example, with the Phoenix pay system, we have IT workers who could go in and help and fix it, but we can't do anything about it.
We have to be at the table. We have to be a part of the decisions to say that this is work that needs to be outsourced, or this is work that can be done in-house if you give us proper resourcing and proper staffing levels in order to do it on behalf of Canadians and at the best value for Canadians.