Evidence of meeting #49 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Good afternoon, everyone.
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 49 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, the mighty OGGO.
Pursuant to the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, January 18, 2022, the committee is meeting on the study of federal government consulting contracts awarded to McKinsey & Company.
We are going to start with a five-minute opening statement from Mr. Barton.
Mr. Barton, welcome. Five minutes are yours.
Dominic Barton As an Individual
Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for inviting me today.
At the outset, I want to be clear that I'm appearing voluntarily, as a private citizen, on my own behalf. I'm not here as a representative of McKinsey and, obviously, I do not speak on behalf of the Government of Canada.
I want to take a few minutes to tell you about my background and make three observations.
On my background, I started my career in 1986, at McKinsey’s Toronto office, where I spent 10 years. I then moved to the South Korean office and stayed in Asia for 12 years. In 2009 I was elected global managing partner, in which role I served until 2018, having held three terms. As managing partner, my role did not involve the origination or oversight of paid engagements between the Government of Canada and McKinsey’s Canadian team.
It has now been over three and a half years since I left McKinsey and sold all my shares. It has been more than 25 years since I was regularly involved in McKinsey’s Canadian consulting engagements.
I'm neither a member nor a supporter of any political party in Canada.
I believe, though, in giving back to Canada. I have been an unpaid adviser to different Canadian governments a number of times. For example, in 2010 I was among a number of Canadians advising then finance minister Jim Flaherty, including attending a two-day retreat hosted by him.
In 2013 I was asked by then prime minister Harper to serve on the Canadian advisory committee on the public service, which I did for two years.
In 2016 I was asked by then minister Morneau to chair his advisory council on economic growth with 13 other Canadians. I believe that the growth council did important work for Canadians. Its recommendations included building more Canadian infrastructure, speeding up approvals for resource projects, cutting red tape, attracting foreign talent and capital, unleashing key sectors such as agriculture, and providing the basis for reskilling Canadians to deal with technological change.
In July 2018 I announced that I was retiring from McKinsey and began to build my next chapter, which included public, private and foundation board roles. To support my wife, Geraldine, in her career, I moved from New York to Hong Kong.
In August 2019 I was asked to become ambassador to China, where my primary mandate was to secure the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. I then had to resign from more than a dozen roles I had recently taken on as part of my post-retirement work.
I want to make three quick observations that I hope will be helpful.
First, I want to be clear that I have had no involvement whatsoever in any awarding of paid work to McKinsey by the federal government since I relocated to Asia in 1996. In joining the public service as ambassador to China in 2019, I underwent a thorough conflict of interest process with the Ethics Commissioner to ensure that my prior roles with McKinsey and elsewhere would not conflict with my public service obligations. That included a full proactive recusal that screened me from dealing with McKinsey and, of course, any decisions made by the federal public service relating to McKinsey.
Second, federal procurement work involves a structured process. The procurements are not evaluated at the political level but by civil servants. Of the public sector engagement since 2015 reported by the media, McKinsey has publicly stated that the vast majority were the result of publicly tendered, competitive requests for proposals, independently evaluated by public servants based on objective point-rated technical and pricing criteria. The rest were through a national master standing order, which also follows a rigorous procurement process.
Consultants are often selected by governments in the private and social sectors because they are able to provide specialized expertise, innovation and insights from global experience, advice that is objective and independent, flexibility to help when and where needed without carrying those same costs at other times, and a deep bench to allow analysis to be completed quickly.
It's also important to separate the work of McKinsey from the times that I, as a private citizen, sat on several advisory councils as a volunteer at the request of then prime minister Harper, the late minister Flaherty and then minister Morneau. Those advisory councils made recommendations to elected officials. Sometimes they took them; sometimes they didn't. In these instances, advice came from a panel of volunteers convened by the government, not from McKinsey.
I chaired the growth council, and McKinsey supported the growth council's work by providing data and information to help the council on a pro bono basis.
Third, and finally, I will note here that the National Post recently reported that in the last full fiscal year, ending March 31, 2022, the Government of Canada spent at least $22.2 billion on external consultants, of which McKinsey contracts represented $17 million.
I appreciate your invitation today and look forward to taking your questions.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Barton.
Colleagues, before we start, for this meeting we will be holding everyone precisely to our allotted times. Please keep that in mind.
Mrs. Kusie, we'll start with you for six minutes, please.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Thank you, Mr. Barton, for being here today.
Would you consider yourself a friend of the current Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau?
As an Individual
No. I consider myself having.... I'm not a friend. I have a professional relationship—
As an Individual
I respect him. I think he respects me. I don't have his personal phone number. I haven't been in a room alone with him.
Conservative
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
All right.
When did you first meet the Prime Minister? When I'm referring to the Prime Minister, I'm always referring to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
When did you first meet him?
As an Individual
I think I met him, actually, in 2013, when I was going up to meet—
Conservative
As an Individual
Do you know where I was going? It was to see Mr. Flaherty. I was in the elevator and someone introduced him to me, saying that this was Justin Trudeau. I didn't know what he looked like or where he was.
I was in the elevator, going to see Minister Flaherty.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Did you ever meet with the Prime Minister or members of his staff while he was leader of the Liberal Party before the 2015 election, outside of that meeting?
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay.
When did you first communicate with Justin Trudeau after he was elected prime minister?
As an Individual
It was in Davos, when the government requested that I host a breakfast so he could meet other international leaders. That's when I met him.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
He initiated it. All right.
When was the first time you communicated with the Prime Minister's Office?
As an Individual
It was through the growth council with then minister Morneau. That's where we would have our meetings with the Prime Minister. There were actually a handful.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
All right.
How many times did you meet with Justin Trudeau after his election as Prime Minister in 2015, would you say?
Conservative