Evidence of meeting #49 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Anthony Housefather Liberal Mount Royal, QC
I'll come back in other rounds, but I want to thank you again very much, Mr. Barton, for being here today.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Housefather.
Mr. Blanchet, welcome to OGGO. You have six minutes.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair
Mr. Barton, I'm not going to ask you when your birthday is or whether you prefer creamy or traditional coleslaw.
I have nevertheless taken note of the fact that you are no longer with McKinsey. That's a considerable advantage for us because you are thoroughly familiar with that firm, and know it as few others do. You are free to speak, because it is no longer your employer and you are no longer associated with it. That's great, because we'll be able to ask you more specific questions.
In just a few words, how would you define a standing offer?
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
On a standing offer.... I've never been involved in the contracts, so I'm just reading what I saw. I've never gone through a contracting process with the Government of Canada, so I don't know. I can read to you what I think it says—
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC
That won't be necessary, because time is short.
Just as the Prime Minister of Canada is accountable for everything that happens with his government, you, as managing director of McKinsey must have known how the company operates internally.
I will accordingly ask you a more general question.
Could McKinsey, under your authority, have awarded a contract whose terms and costs were unknown to the public, and which would only expire long after the death of anyone who might have read it? Is that a sound managerial practice for a private company or government?
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Our understanding of this standing offer is that the public does not know what it's for, now or in the future, or how much it will cost. It will not be zero dollars, as was written, or as the minister claimed. Not only that, but by the time the contract comes to term, if it continues until 2100, we'll all be dead.
Is that a sound managerial practice? As the managing director of McKinsey, would you have done that?
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Again, Mr. Chair, I haven't been involved in those contracts. I don't know. I have no idea.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC
As a manager, would you have done that? You are probably an outstanding manager. Would you have arranged a contract like that? As a client, would you have agreed to sign it?
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC
That's interesting.
My understanding is that you obviously don't know the Prime Minister of Canada very well at all. You'd have trouble recognizing him in an elevator if he was in there with you.
And yet you were appointed ambassador to China, a posting so important that you must have had detailed conversations with the Prime Minister of Canada about his expectations with respect to our relationship with China—and God knows things were not going well.
What was the nature of these conversations? Did they not lead to some close contacts between the Prime Minister and yourself?
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
That's a great question.
I want to clarify something. I didn't know who he was in 2013. When I was in that elevator going up to see Jim Flaherty, that's the first time I met him. I haven't been in Canada since 1996. I don't watch the news and everything that is going on, so I didn't know who that was. Someone then introduced me and said, “This is Justin Trudeau.” That's why. That's the first time. Of course, after doing the growth council and so forth, I did know who he was, and recognized him.
In the run-up to my being ambassador, it was Ian Shugart, who is the clerk, who asked me to help. It wasn't the Prime Minister. It was Ian, because, just to explain, there was no communication with China. Nothing was happening. You know how bad it was.
They were looking for ideas, and I said, “Let's try a back channel route to try to get a communication going.” That's the first time I had an interaction with the Prime Minister on that: How would we do it? We'd have to set this up at the G20. There were about six other people in the room. That's the first time we talked about it.
Ian Shugart was the main person who was interacting with me, and actually trying to convince me to do it. I'll be very honest. It was the greatest honour of my life to do that role, but I did not volunteer to do that.
February 1st, 2023 / 4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yves-François Blanchet Bloc Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Mr. Barton, in view of the extent of our relationship, it's highly unlikely that I would be publicly praising your qualities. I don't think we are that close, which suggests something.
I'm going to bring up an entirely different matter, the matter of Canada with its 100 million citizens, and the greater Montreal area, with a population of 12.5 million. It's about a recommendation designed to make Canada's economy more dynamic.
You've been talking about a lot of numbers. Of these 12.5 million Montrealers, how many would speak French? To what extent will we have been able, as a country, to integrate, teach French to, and invite people to become a part of the Quebec nation, one of whose characteristics is the French language? Will this number not mean fewer people overall who will still be speaking French?
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
You're talking about immigration, and the numbers we're trying to get—
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, the Century Initiative.
Again, that was a private initiative through which we were trying to say.... Laurier had an ambition for Canada to be a dominant country in the 20th century, which we were not. The hope was that we could be. That's where that idea came from. It's very important how people would be able to integrate. They have to integrate into our society.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Blanchet.
We'll go to Mr. Johns, for six minutes, please.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you for being here.
Back when I was a business owner and I ran a chamber of commerce, we'd do a SWOT analysis: identifying strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. I'm sure you've participated in this exercise many times at McKinsey. We know McKinsey's strengths. It's able to swing sole-sourced contracts and get money out of Canadians. Its weaknesses are scandal after scandal. We know that McKinsey sees any crisis, whether it be the opioid crisis or a pandemic, as an opportunity.
I want to ask you about the “t”, about the threats. Maybe you can spill the tea a bit. What were the threats to McKinsey when you were there? Who were the threats?
4:55 p.m.
As an Individual
First of all, that's a very biased SWOT analysis. It's not a very good one, so—
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I just want to focus on the threats. What were the threats? What was the competition that was the biggest threat to McKinsey?