Government Operations Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's our time. Thanks, Mr. Johns.

We'll go to Mrs. Block, please, for five minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Jaczek, for joining us today.

You were appointed minister of PSPC on August 31, 2022. Is that correct?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I remember that date. Yes, that is correct.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

When you took over this portfolio, were you briefed on the process for awarding contracts?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I was given a more general briefing in terms of the process and the delegation that has occurred through public officials based on the value of the contracts. We've heard a bit of an allusion to that. I would say that—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Okay.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

—there was no in-depth briefing because, of course, we trust our public officials.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

Were you advised of any favoured firms at the time?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Absolutely not.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

How many contracts has PSPC awarded since you've been minister?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I will have to turn to the officials, who have been awarding those contracts.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

No, that's okay. If you don't know, it's fine with me that you don't have that answer for me.

Can you tell me how many ongoing contracts or multi-year contracts McKinsey currently has?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I believe this is the 24 figure that you've heard from the deputy.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

That's in ongoing contracts.

We've heard the number of $101 million, but ongoing contracts could mean that there is still much more to be paid to McKinsey. Is that correct?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I will turn to the deputy, who knows the details of the contracts.

[Paul Thompson]

Thank you for that question.

Any additional contracts that would be ongoing are the ones that my colleague Mollie mentioned might be the responsibility of other departments, which have not yet been recorded in the system. That's where we would see newer activity.

The number of contracts issued by PSPC that we have on record, current and ongoing, is 24.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Let's talk about the contract with PSPC for Phoenix. Originally, in 2020, that contract was worth $4.9 million, and it has been amended three times to a total of $27.7 million. Can you tell us what work McKinsey is doing?

As a side note, it has been reported that they've been hired to streamline processes and standardize work at the public service pay centre, but I believe that you, in a previous meeting, advised us that the backlog was growing.

I want to turn back to the minister and ask her if this is a concern to her with regard to the quality of work that McKinsey is offering. Is it a concern that we have ongoing contracts that were originally worth $4.9 million that have been amended three times to be eight times the total, at $27.7 million?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Ms. Block, I believe that the number is actually $29.6 million. Again, because this is the latest information that we have....

In terms of the work that's being done, this is the accelerator project. As you alluded to, it is to assist with the training of personnel and so on.

I have been told that the backlog has been stabilized in terms of Phoenix. We have, as you know, increased the number of public servants who are administering the pay centre, but we have also had McKinsey assist with efficiencies—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

—and productivity, and the deputy has some statistics on those.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

No, I have other questions that I'd like to ask of you, Madam Minister.

Dominic Barton spoke of McKinsey doing pro bono work for the federal government. Are you familiar with this practice?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

No.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Could you then provide some answers for me with regard to how many of these departments are having pro bono work done by McKinsey?

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I will turn to the deputy to see if that's something that can be collated for you.

[Paul Thompson]

Thank you for the question.

The notion of pro bono work is not something that we entertain as part of PSPC's contracts. That, I guess, could be a question directed at other departments for relationships that they have, but I'm not in a position to speak to what other departmental practices would be.