Government Operations Committee on Feb. 15th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry. I'm putting you in a difficult spot, Clerk, but I'm looking for clarity.

[The Clerk]

The clarity I would offer is clerk wisdom in that I only offer advice and recommendations, but ultimately decisions on admissibility are the purview of the chair, so if the chair says that the motion is admissible, then it is admissible. His decisions can always be challenged by any member of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You're throwing it back at me, then.

Just excuse me for two seconds. There is the issue that I did mention, at the very beginning of this meeting, that we would have committee business before going in camera and discussing more committee business. I think it might have a different bearing on it.

Let me confer with our clerk.

Colleagues, I do apologize for my lack of education on this issue and the back and forth. I have confirmed with the clerk, and she has confirmed that at the beginning I did state it would be committee business before committee business. Therefore, someone can table-drop a matter-in-hand motion. I do believe it is relevant. You are welcome to challenge this.

I will open it up to the committee to vote on the issue if you wish to challenge the ruling. Because we did state at the very beginning it would be committee business before we went into the subcommittee, that would be it and the challenge wouldn't go to a vote.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Before we challenge and go to the vote, Mr. Chair.... Colleagues, we work very well together. I have yet to see a motion come forward that, had we been given enough time to be able to review it, we rejected it. You know that. If you look at the history, this has never happened in this committee, at least from this group that has been together. That's number one.

Number two, we just don't want to set precedents in such a way that we feel we are trapped, because when we act like this our backs go up—and I'm being very transparent. I know we are in public. It's just—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I didn't know John Reynolds had an article in the media today, so thank you for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Jowhari has the floor.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Honestly, I don't recall any member in this committee who hasn't worked collaboratively. When we walk out of this room, we greet each other well, we work with each other and we ask each other's opinions. I understand when we are in camera we have to behave a certain way based on whatever our party alliance is, etc.

But let's talk about this thing.

Stephanie, you could stop me and say, “Hey, Majid”, or any of our members could say, “Hey, look, I'm putting this.... What are your thoughts?”

At the end of the day, I guarantee you that we're going to support this. We may have some questions. There may be some amendments, but when we start standardizing a practice of dropping a motion like this, trying to get it in public and not having an opportunity for us to work together, it puts our backs up. We wonder if there is something in there that we have to be careful of. Are we exposing anyone?

Again, all I want to say is that we work well together. Let's work well together.

Chair, I believe you're going to say this is in order, and I'm going to challenge this, as a vice-chair, and we're going to go to a vote. Whatever the result is going to be, it will be.

My ask is this. Please—I'm here and my colleagues are here—work with us to make sure that the motion comes in.... Look at what we have. I don't think any committee has as many studies on the table as we have. I challenge any committee, any committee members of any other committee, to come and say that this group has not worked collaboratively together to make sure they're addressing the issues of the day.

We have five or six studies that we have not finalized, because we want to act collaboratively and we want to address the issues of the day.

I will rest on that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Before I go to Mrs. Kusie, I'll say it has been practice over the years that we do matter-at-hand motions quite often.

We'll go to Mrs. Kusie and then Mr. Johns.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I won't say anything.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Clearly, I would support this motion when it is voted on.

I do want to point out that I tabled a motion on outsourcing. It was a matter-at-hand motion and it reflected exactly what we talked about. The Conservatives said no, and said that they needed more time. It was just around expanding the outsourcing to include the big six companies. We actually waited all the way until this Monday to vote on my motion, which was a motion that just reflected what we had talked about, which I had shared with everybody and had gotten everybody on board with.

I actually agree with Majid on the practice that we do. Matter at hand is a different story. Clearly, I think we need the documents, and I really appreciate the motion by Mrs. Kusie and her work on this because it's really important. I think, as a practice, what Mr. Jowhari's suggesting is the right thing to do.

Clearly, the government is going to get the idea this is coming. We could put a new date on it, maybe, and get it passed early in the next meeting and then just give them a very short window to get the documents.

This is coming. It looks like it's going to get support and the government's going to get wind of it. Hopefully, they can start getting these documents ready.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We can go to Mr. Housefather, but I'm sensing that it's not going to happen today.

Go ahead, Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to introduce one element, Mr. Chair, to give you a chance to reconsider your ruling before we actually have to challenge it.

This wasn't on the agenda today; that is clear. This was a McKinsey meeting. Regardless of what the chair says at the beginning of the meeting, you did not ask the committee if it wished to change the agenda to add something. You may have announced it, but that's not changing the agenda in the correct way.

I think we're all going to agree on this motion. We can talk about it until the next meeting. Can we perhaps have the chair rule that it should come up at the next meeting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

At this point, with Mr. Johns not supporting it, it's six of one and six of the other. I'm happy to have you challenge me and do a vote.

At this point, it really doesn't matter.

Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

I'll change it to a notice of motion, then, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm still open to have you challenge me, though.

If that's the case, we'll suspend very briefly. It's going to be, unfortunately, about 10 minutes for us to get the tech working properly.

We'll suspend briefly, and then we'll go in camera for the subcommittee meeting.