Government Operations Committee on May 31st, 2023

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I know that the fact that the government needs to tackle not only the cost of housing but the issue of supply has been a really important question for Canadians across the nation, and we know that Canadians are struggling. That's why our government is delivering a bold federal leadership to rapidly increase housing supply, support Canadians struggling with the cost of housing, and of course protect the dream of home ownership. We've been hearing that a lot.

In the main estimates, we have an additional $1.6 billion for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation; this is to create new affordable housing units. You know that the rapid housing initiative is a very important initiative across the country. There's also the affordable housing innovation fund that develops and scales up rent-to-own projects.

Also, we help affordable housing providers to complete deep energy retrofits on existing multi-unit residential buildings. Those programs are the Canada greener affordable housing stream of the Canada greener homes loan program. Also, we have the national housing strategy, which is our 10-year plan to help Canadians access housing that meets their needs and that they can also afford.

I will also mention—because we're doing both today—that in supplementary estimates (A), we provide a further billion dollars for the housing accelerator fund, which works with local governments to remove barriers and also incentivize housing supply growth with the goal of creating at least 100,000 net new homes across Canada. All this works, of course, in tandem with other measures, such as the new registered account to give prospective first-time homebuyers the ability to save $40,000.

I will stop there, because I've been told that my time is up, Parm.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks, Mr. Bains. Thanks, Minister.

Ms. Vignola, you have six minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Fortier, ladies, thank you for being here with us today.

I will go almost immediately to the Supplementary Estimates (A). I was surprised to see that $463 million was earmarked to purchase an emerging treatment for COVID‑19. There are of course still some cases of COVID‑19 and the post-COVID‑19 syndrome. In terms of deaths, however, there are currently 33 COVID‑19 deaths per week. That is still too many, but there are of 114 deaths from influenza every week, on average.

Why are $463 million being set aside to purchase an emerging treatment?

What is the treatment, who is the supplier and what is the justification for that purchase?

Thank you.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I will have to ask Ms. Boudreau for more details about how that money was used. She can provide some clarifications.

[Annie Boudreau, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

That is reprofiled funding. It is money that was not used last year. The department asked us to carry the funding forward to the Supplementary Estimates (A) so it can be used. As to the supplier, we will have to provide additional information later on. It is not new funding though. It is funding that was not used and that was carried forward.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

In his testimony on April 24, 2023, Michael Wernick said the following about the 2023 budget: “It isn't good enough to just set a target to spend less on consultants. That's a classic half measure. The other half that is missing is a commitment to double the annual investment in training and leadership development within the public service.” In my opinion, it is important to develop that internal expertise.

Do you agree with what Mr. Wernick said and what I am saying? Where do you think the greatest need for training is? How much money has the government earmarked for training this year?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for the question.

As to professional services, they have to supplement the services for which we do not have the necessary expertise. In terms of digital expertise, I know there are many projects that include outside experts. We retained their services to help train public service staff. This will enable us to better support the many program that have been implemented. Ms. Laroche could name a few of them.

It is very important that professional services are used to supplement what the public service cannot offer at this time, whether for architecture projects or services provided by nursing staff, for instance.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We agree on that.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

We agree that the public service must be able to meet expectations and that the staff must have the necessary training.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

How much has been earmarked for the training of public servants?

[Mireille Laroche, Assistant Deputy Minister, People and Culture, Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you for the question.

Training is a decentralized responsibility. Deputy heads determine the amounts allocated for training. For our part, we have not set a general amount. That said, the Canada School of Public Service has a budget to train all public servants.

Certain departments also offer learning activities, such as Service Canada. For our part, we establish leadership programs, specifically to support our people.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So there is no effort to piece together the total amounts for each department or program. For example, it could be determined that, for Quebec, one or two per cent of the salary budget has to be allocated to training, for an annual centralized total.

That is not the case here.

[Mireille Laroche]

No, that does not exist. To my knowledge, the funding is allocated for each department, where centres of expertise provide the training.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

Why are the opening balances of the central votes highlighted in this budget?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I will ask Ms. Boudreau to answer that question.

[Annie Boudreau]

Thank you.

Actually, it was to increase transparency. We were told several times that it is very important to clearly indicate what is included in Vote 10, that is, government-wide initiatives.

We took the opportunity this year to highlight all central votes. There is a lot of transparency; we know what the opening balance is. Each time the main estimates are tabled in Parliament, we will see an increase in central votes. In short, it is really a question of transparency.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Vote 5 is set at $750 million per fiscal year.

If I were to ask you the same question again, would you give me the same answer?

[Annie Boudreau]

Yes, but I would add that this amount has been not changed in 20 years. It has never increased, not even to allow for inflation.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

How was it determined that the budget was $750 million per year for 20 years and that it might be the same for the next 75,000 years?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm afraid that is our time.

Mr. Johns, please go ahead.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for being here, and to your team for the important work they're doing.

Minister, we know seniors are struggling right now. They can barely make ends meet. With inflation and with the delay in the pharmacare plan that was promised by this government, the costs of everything are suffocating seniors. I'm glad you've moved the retirement age back to 65 from 67, which the Conservatives had decided to move forward, but your plan to increase OAS by 10% for those over 75 and to exclude those from 65 to 75 is costly to those seniors and has created a two-tier system.

The PBO costed out what it would cost if you included those 65 to 75, and it would be $2.9 billion. Basically, it would cost about half a per cent of a corporate tax increase to cover those 65 to 75.

My concern is this: Why are you choosing corporate welfare, with the lowest corporate tax rate in the G7, over helping seniors who are struggling right now?

I have to say that we put forward proposals to tax the wealthiest of Canadians. Those proposals would have resulted in $10 billion in taxes, and you defeated them. You chose to support large corporations that are reaping excess profits, instead of giving increases to seniors. Why?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for your question and your statement.

It's important to know that we have increased OAS for those 75 and over and we are concentrating on making sure seniors are in a better state. We are continuing to invest in seniors. We just invested in dental care—with your help, MP Johns—to make sure that seniors will have access to dental care.

It will be important for us to continue the conversations on how we will continue to support Canadians.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Will you consider it, though? Will you consider increasing corporate taxes?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I would invite you to also have a conversation with Minister Khera to see how the different plans for seniors are moving along, and also with the Minister of Finance. Of course you know that the Minister of Finance allocates the amounts and the investments—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

And you sign off on those.