Government Operations Committee on June 12th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Welcome to meeting number 71 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, also known as the mighty OGGO or the only committee that matters.

Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the House on Wednesday, February 15, 2023, the committee is meeting for clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-290, an act to amend the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act.

We have with us, back from the Treasury Board, Ms. Laroche and Ms. Stevens. I ask that if you have questions for them, direct your questions directly to them, please.

Of course, we welcome our legislative clerks.

Really quickly, colleagues, on July 19, it appears we'll have the departments back in for the McKinsey documents. Like before, I'm seeking unanimous consent to limit their speaking time to two and a half minutes for the introductions.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

What was the date?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

It was the 19th.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

You said July.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry. I meant June 19.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I was ready to crumple something.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

The meeting will still be going on. There will be a filibuster.

Is June 19 fine, colleagues? On June 19, we'll have the departments back in for the McKinsey documents, seeing as there are eight of them.

We're just looking for unanimous consent that we will provide them with two and a half minutes each instead of the five, so that you'll have time to meet with them.

Wonderful.

Ms. Vignola, you have your hand up.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

If I understand well, June 19 will not be used for Bill C-290. Is that right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That is correct.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

June 19 will not be used for Bill C-290.

I'm convinced that we're all acting in very good faith and that we want to pass Bill C‑290 as quickly as possible. Nevertheless, I'd like to introduce a motion, which I have sent to the clerk. I will read it to you, in both official languages as needed. It won't take long; I have to open it.

I move that, pursuant to Standing Order 97.1, the committee request an extension of 30 sitting days to consider Bill C‑290, An Act to amend the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, referred to the committee on Wednesday, February 15, 2023—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry, Ms. Vignola. We have to wait for translation.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Pardon me?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

There we go. The translation was not working.

Can you start again?

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

I move that, pursuant to Standing Order 97.1, the committee request an extension of 30 sitting days to consider Bill C‑290, An Act to amend the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, referred to the committee on Wednesday, February 15, 2023, to give the bill the attention it deserves, and that the Chair submit this request to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Mr. Fergus, did you want to chime in on this?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

We support this request. We hope that we will finish all of our business today and that this extension will not be necessary, but it's a good insurance policy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That was going to be my line, Mr. Fergus.

Do we have consent for that, colleagues? Basically, it gives us an opportunity if we're not able to finish it this month.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Wonderful. So be it. Thanks, everyone.

(On clause 12)

We are going to get right into the clause-by-clause. We're resuming consideration of amendment G-7, which has already been moved by Mr. Fergus to clause 12. G-7 is on page 26 of the package.

Shall G-7 carry?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Go ahead, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It limits the options available to the whistle-blower. It provides only one recourse method at the time. It cancels Bill C-290's repeal of subsections 19.3(2) and 19.3(3), which prevent the commissioner from dealing with a complaint if any other measure has already been taken, for example, the collective agreement.

We heard from the experts that circumstances may require that more than one method of recourse be taken and that certain methods of recourse often take years, so it isn't reasonable to require the whistle-blower to wait years before beginning another method.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Next is Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I respectfully disagree with my colleague Mr. Johns, clearly because that's the reason why I want to bring this forward.

This amendment—and actually there are going to be a number of them—is going to prevent any overlaps with other recourse mechanisms for reprisal, because if we don't do that, then what we're going to have is multiple processes being conducted on the same issues by different administrative bodies, with differing mandates and objectives. That would be a waste of resources, one, and I think the greatest concern is that it could come out with inconsistent determinations that would be offering different remedies. I think that's the principal reason why there is this change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I have Ms. Vignola.