Government Operations Committee on March 4th, 2022

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC)), Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

I call the meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number eight of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Today we will hear from the officials of PSPC and SSC regarding the supplementary estimates and the departmental results reports.

Members are aware that the Minister of PSPC was supposed to appear before the committee today as well, but unfortunately earlier in the week we were informed that due to medical reasons the minister would be unable to appear. On behalf of our committee members, I wish the minister a full and speedy recovery.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. Regarding the speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether participating virtually or in person.

I'll take this opportunity to remind all participants in this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from public health authorities, as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, the following is recommended for all those attending the meeting in person.

Anyone with symptoms should participate by Zoom and not attend the meeting in person. Everyone must maintain two-metre physical distancing, whether seated or standing. Everyone must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is recommended in the strongest possible terms that members wear their mask at all times, including when seated. Non-medical masks, which provide better clarity over cloth masks, are available in the room. Everyone present must maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizer at the room entrance.

Committee rooms are cleaned before and after each meeting. To maintain this, everyone is encouraged to clean the surfaces of their desk, chair or microphone with the provided disinfectant wipes when vacating or taking a seat.

As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank members in advance for their co-operation.

I welcome the representatives of PSPC and SSC and invite them to make any opening statements. With that, I thank the officials for coming today and being here in person. It's nice to see you, as well as those who are on Zoom.

Mr. Thompson, are you going to start?

Go ahead, please.

[Paul Thompson, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for the invitation to appear today.

With me in the room is Mr. Wojo Zielonka. He is the chief financial officer for PSPC. I have additional colleagues joining me online, including Arianne Reza, our associate deputy minister.

I am pleased to be here to address questions related to Public Services and Procurement Canada’s most recent departmental results report, for 2020-21, and its supplementary estimates (C).

The departmental results report highlights the department’s achievements in delivering on its diverse mandate. As a common service provider, PSPC works to support the whole of government as it serves Canadians, from procurement to managing government buildings to being the pay and pension administrator for the public service, and more.

Over the past year, PSPC has continued to play a key role in supporting Canada’s response to the pandemic. An aggressive procurement approach early on resulted in a secure supply of vaccines and personal protective equipment, with much of that PPE now being made here at home.

With regard to testing, PSPC secured millions of rapid tests to support the work of the Public Health Agency of Canada and provinces and territories. Requests for these tests have increased dramatically as the pandemic has evolved. As of this week, more that 330 million rapid tests have been delivered to Canada, and hundreds of millions more will arrive in the coming months.

As well as being an important part of the fight against COVID, procurement is a powerful lever that can be used to support inclusive economic growth.

I’m proud to say that PSPC continues to modernize procurement practices to reduce barriers for under-represented groups. To this end, PSPC has launched a supplier diversity action plan that includes pilot projects and consultations with businesses led by Black and other racialized Canadians, women, LGBTQ2+ Canadians, indigenous peoples, Canadians with disabilities, and other communities. As well, last summer PSPC announced federal government-wide measures aimed at working towards implementing a requirement that at least 5% of the total value of federal contracts be held by businesses led by first nations, Inuit and Métis peoples.

The department also has other important work under way, including the renovation and rehabilitation of the parliamentary precinct. Major construction activities continue on this historic restoration project of Centre Block, including excavation work for the parliamentary welcome centre, demolition and abatement, and the development of concept designs. Last year saw the launch of the architectural design competition to redevelop block 2, the city block facing Parliament Hill and surrounded by Wellington, Sparks, Metcalfe and O’Connor streets.

PSPC continues to support the environmental sustainability of government operations. As outlined in our departmental results report, PSPC implements a range of clean technologies in building operations, among other actions.

In addition, PSPC continued with the ongoing delivery of defence procurements in support of Canada’s defence policy: Strong, Secure, Engaged.

That included reviewing bids for the purchase of new fighter jets for the Royal Canadian Air Force. And I will note that we are still on track for a contract award later this year, with delivery of aircraft as early as 2025.

Mr. Chair, these are just a few highlights of our departmental results report.

I look forward to the discussion and entertaining any comments and questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Thompson.

Mr. Perron, did you have an opening statement?

[Sony Perron, Executive Vice-President, Shared Services Canada]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Please go ahead.

[Sony Perron]

Thank you.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members. Thank you very much for the invitation. Samantha and I are really pleased to be here to represent Shared Services Canada and answer all the questions you might have.

Let me begin by acknowledging that I'm doing my work today on the ancestral territory of the Algonquin people. I would like to thank them for the possibility of doing that every day here in Ottawa.

Joining me today I have Sam Hazen. Sam is our chief financial officer and assistant deputy minister at Shared Services Canada.

Shared Services Canada continues to play a vital role in supporting government operations by operating and modernizing the Government of Canada’s information technology infrastructure. The department had many accomplishments during the last fiscal year as we played a key role in the rapid transition for thousands of government employees and supported multiple departments on the front line of the pandemic response.

As a service provider to over 40 government departments and agencies, Shared Services Canada’s work across the Government of Canada allowed us to rely on a secure and efficient digital infrastructure to deliver critical online services to Canadians.

Prior to the pandemic, Shared Services Canada was guided by a strategy focused on meeting the needs of government as a common enterprise, while still allowing enough flexibility to address unique departmental requirements. The department had been focussing on enhancing network operations, delivering new digital government tools, and supporting IT capacity for departments.

That focus ensured that Shared Services Canada was well-positioned for service delivery at speed and at scale upon the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Examples of key accomplishments to support the Government of Canada in response to the COVID-19 pandemic include rapidly deploying Microsoft 365, a cloud-based suite of business and collaboration tools, and increasing remote work capacity allowing public servants to continue delivering services to Canadians.

Shared Services Canada quadrupled bandwidth and tripled remote connections to support the Canada Revenue Agency's delivery of CERB and other emergency benefit programs that followed to support Canadians through the course of the evolving pandemic.

Shared Services Canada helped to develop the ArriveCAN application to support border controls and contact tracing and to ensure that travellers arriving in Canada receive timely and accurate information.

In 2020-21, Shared Services Canada continued to evolve its agile procurement process through improved training for procurement officers on agile and collaborative methods. We also continue to engage with industry regarding our network modernization way forward.

We will continue to advance government-wide initiatives to increase the diversity of bidders so that even more companies have access to government IT contract opportunities.

These are just some examples of the important work being done by Shared Services Canada. The departmental results report provides further details on accomplishments over the past year.

To fund the ongoing work for fiscal year 2021-22, we are seeking an increase of $91 million for Shared Services Canada through the supplementary estimates (C).

One of the main contributors to the overall increase in funding includes the next-generation human resources and pay initiative. This will enable the NextGen team to carry out test pilots to assess the complexity of the government's HR and pay requirements, as well as conduct a feasibility study to identify the resources and level of effort to transition to a new system.

Other contributors to the requested increase include cyber and information technology security initiatives, workload modernization and migration, and funding related to re-profiling initiatives that experienced delays in 2020-21, mainly due to the pandemic.

We are proud of our work and happy to answer your questions.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

We will now go into our first round of questions.

We will start with six minutes from Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Welcome, everyone.

I have a quick question. On the jet procurement, when is the decision going to be made? I'm looking for a timeline, not “later this year”—a timeline.

[Paul Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With respect to the future fighter project, there was a major milestone achieved at the end of last—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm not asking that. I'm asking a simple question: When will a decision be made?

[Paul Thompson]

The process is advancing based on that last step, and we're looking toward—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When will the decision be made?

[Paul Thompson]

There will be a decision made in the coming months with respect to the final procurement decision, and the contract finalization is on track for 2022.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

PSPC put out a press release saying they're going to make a decision soon and start negotiating with the winner, or perhaps they're going to re-enter another competitive stage with Saab and Lockheed Martin.

Could you explain that? Who is driving this? We obviously see what's going on in the world right now. We've seen the threats from Russia. Who is driving this continual delay of a decision?

As a reference, in 2016, I was on OGGO. We asked much the same question six years ago, and we got the same answer: “soon, soon, soon”. What is driving this continual delay, and whose decision is it to say that we are going to choose someone, but maybe we're going to go back into competitive bidding to further delay the process?

[Paul Thompson]

Mr. Chair, we have a robust governance process that involves three departments looking at the three pillars of the procurement. It looks at the mission capability and the requirements of DND, the economic benefits and the value, and the—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The press release talked about improving the bid, not about changing requirements. The press release talked about improving the bid.

Whose decision is that, to potentially delay the decision even more?

[Paul Thompson]

Mr. Chair, there is a rigorous evaluation process. It is nearing completion toward the choices that the member outlined in terms of competitive dialogue versus contract finalization, and I can assure you that the process is—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

In terms of renegotiating, how much more will that delay it, if we go back to Saab and Lockheed and say that we want to go back to another competitive discussion? How much further will that delay the process?

[Paul Thompson]

That would add a number of months to the process. There is—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What's the number of months? Is it two months or 10 months?

[Paul Thompson]

It would depend on the nature of the dialogue that took place in—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What's your best guess?

[Paul Thompson]

It could take up to a year, I suppose.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We have rusted-out CF-18s. We have planes that cannot compete safely, and we're thinking that the government potentially could delay this another year, on top of the delay to get to the decision. Wonderful.

Who is driving that decision? Is this a political decision, is this a PSPC decision, or is this the air force trying to grind out a few extra benefits?

[Paul Thompson]

Mr. Chair, the process has an established governance involving three departments: DND, PSPC, which manages value for the Crown and—