Evidence of meeting #81 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Do you believe she thinks that because you're subcontracting for the other companies that they were paid and they just haven't paid you, so they believe it's an internal issue between the two companies?
4:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Botler
The CBSA does say on record that this is an issue between the contractors. The CBSA is also aware through numerous records, ATIPs and direct reports that we have no relationship with the contractors. These were the CBSA's contractors, so I'm not sure where this relationship between us and the contractors would be enforced by the CBSA.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I just find it really interesting that Ms. Daly would write an email to get you paid the first time, but Ms. Daly or Ms. O'Gorman haven't written them a second email to pay you the rest. They say it's not their problem. It's between contractors. They get involved when they choose to and don't get involved when they decide it's not in their best interest.
4:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Botler
That is correct.
In December 2021, when we again reported misconduct, after which the CBSA responded by retaliating and cutting the project, they had said.... It was either then or earlier Ms. Daly said that they must retain confidences in their contractors. Then, in the November 2022 misconduct report, where we stated we had still not been paid, the CBSA's Pierre Lessard, who is, I believe, now in charge of the investigation.... He is their chief security officer and director of something.... I'll have to clarify that. He came back and said that this was between us and our business partners. I find it very confusing that, when we first raised misconduct allegations, it was “their” contractors who they had to retain confidences in, but the second time around, it was now “our” business partners.
4:20 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I'm sorry. I only have a minute. You're going to get a chance too.
The people you subbed for have been paid for your work. Would that be true?
I'm going to dive in quickly. Can you talk about the reprisals that happened as soon as you sent that email in September, and have the RCMP spoken to you yet?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Botler
I have not spoken with the RCMP yet. They have spoken with Amir.
We faced immediate reprisal from the contractors as soon as we reported the September 2021 misconduct. We had issues getting security clearances for other staff members who were supposed to be working on the projects. We had more delayed payments. They refused to meet with us to discuss issues. CBSA was supposed to meet with us to rework the contract into a clean contract. They kept pushing that meeting and essentially ghosted us.
Then, when we again reported that misconduct in December 2022, CBSA's reprisal was to cut the contract completely, saying they no longer had a need for such a solution.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks, Mr. Johns.
Mr. Barrett, welcome back to OGGO. You have five minutes.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, Ms. Dutt and Mr. Morv, for being here today, and frankly for the work you're doing on behalf of all Canadians—not just the principal work you set out to do with Botler but also the work you're doing with respect to accountability in government contracting. It's essential, and it's a main function of this committee, so I'm pleased you've agreed to join us and answer some questions.
Do you have any evidence related to identity theft?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Are you able to provide that evidence to the committee?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Is it in printed form?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Technology and Security Officer, Botler
Identity theft is basically—by no means am I a lawyer—a two-step offence that includes forgery and using identities to receive benefits. This is exactly what happened in our case.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay.
With respect to the Criminal Code offence of fraud on government, what evidence can you provide on fraudulent resumés or billings?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Technology and Security Officer, Botler
Fraud on the government particularly includes individuals who claim or pretend to have some sort of influence with the government, and claim compensation for it. We have a big record of Mr. Firth and his associates promising different kinds of influence, contracts, the opening of doors and very specific things. They all requested commissions for it.
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Botler
I might quickly add to that.
You have already seen evidence of this in The Globe and Mail. They published an article with the email from Firth saying, “FYI”. Read that email. He says the amount was cut but that we could recover it from the next one, which is CRA. That is promising a guaranteed contract with the CRA, and also promising that we are going to extract funds from one contract for another.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
With respect to the email published in The Globe and Mail, are you able to provide the supporting documents for this and table them with this committee?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you.
Continuing on with the list of requests for evidence—forgery, collusion and impersonation.... These all speak to Criminal Code offences. What evidence can you provide with respect to these?
4:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Botler
I think we can give you, very quickly, our original CVs and the CVs that were provided to the contracting authority showing that we had inflated experience. That's going to be the quickest one.
We also have multiple legal notices that we sent to the different parties involved, demanding that they provide proof of our consent to being named on the contracts, which we never provided. In not providing that response, it is evident it does not exist. That is another proof that our identity was stolen and used for the execution of the task authorization.
4:20 p.m.
Chief Technology and Security Officer, Botler
Mr. Chair, I'll just add to that.
On fraudulent billing, the payments should not have gone through GC Strategies. The email referred to in The Globe and Mail today from Diane Daly requests payments go through GC Strategies. Payments should not have gone through GC Strategies. GC Strategies is not named in the contract.
Also, Ritika can talk about her experience with fraudulent billing, She wasn't working on the CBSA project, but her name appeared on invoices that Coradix submitted to CBSA and received payments for. We have proof of payments made by CBSA on invoices for someone who was not working on the project, but her name was there.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Can you submit those documents to the committee clerk?