Evidence of meeting #82 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Yeo  President and Founder, Dalian Enterprises Inc.
Colin Wood  President, CORADIX Technology Consulting Ltd.
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Aimée Belmore

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 82 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, fondly known as the mighty OGGO.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, October 17, 2022, the committee is meeting for its study of the ArriveCAN application.

Colleagues, I remind you not to put earpieces next to the microphone, as that causes feedback and potential injury.

In accordance with our routine motion, I am informing the committee that all witnesses appearing by video conference have completed the required connection test in advance of the meeting.

We have as witnesses today Mr. Wood and Mr. Yeo. I understand you each have opening statements.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Go ahead, Mrs. Kusie.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

My understanding, and perhaps the clerk will correct me if I'm wrong, is that whether individuals are sworn in or not, under parliamentary privilege, it is still contempt of Parliament to mislead the committee by giving a false statement or false evidence, and to refuse, unless related to cabinet confidence, to answer any questions, or to fail to produce documents that this committee might require someone to produce. That is my understanding.

Could the clerk clarify that for the committee, please?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Did you wish a clarification, or would you like me to comment?

Yes, Mrs. Kusie, there are a couple of items from the book, The Power of Parliamentary Houses to Send for Persons, Papers & Records, which says that whether people are sworn in or not, under parliamentary privilege, it is still contempt of Parliament to mislead the committee by giving a false statement or false evidence, to refuse to provide information that has been requested...to questions or documents.

Moreover, on page 1081, House of Commons Procedure and Practice states the following:

Likewise, refusal to answer questions or failure to reply truthfully may give rise to a charge of contempt of the House, whether the witness has been sworn in or not.

Is that satisfactory for your point of order, or your question?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

It is satisfactory.

I'm wondering if it's historic practice within this committee to swear in the witnesses.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I believe the last time it was done was in 2003, so it's not common.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Thank you, Chair.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Mr. Yeo and Mr. Wood, do you each have opening statements, or are you sharing one statement?

4:05 p.m.

David Yeo President and Founder, Dalian Enterprises Inc.

We each have opening statements.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Perfect. Why don't we start with you, Mr. Yeo, for five minutes, please. We are short of time today and, of course, we're running late, so we'd appreciate if you could just stick to the five minutes.

Please go ahead, Mr. Yeo.

4:05 p.m.

President and Founder, Dalian Enterprises Inc.

David Yeo

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is David Yeo. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to speak with the committee members today.

Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, I would like to acknowledge that the land that we gather on today is the traditional, ancestral and unceded territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation and is now home to many other first nations, Métis and Inuit peoples.

I'm a decorated veteran. During my 36-year career with the Canadian army, which included deployments to Afghanistan and the Middle East, I was held to the highest levels of integrity, and of course, I continue to conduct myself in this manner today.

I would also like to further acknowledge that Chief Robert Franklin, my great grandfather and past chief of Alderville First Nation, was a treaty-signing chief. This treaty was signed on November 19, 1923, almost 100 years to this day. As a direct descendent of a treaty-signing chief, I hold my heritage with the utmost integrity as well.

I happen to have the treaty here with me today to help guide us through these discussions.

In 2003, I was asked to participate in the creation of the Government of Canada's policy for the procurement strategy for aboriginal business, what is known today as the procurement strategy for indigenous business. Mr. Allen Frost, many other indigenous leaders and I created this policy that guides the Government of Canada today in supporting indigenous businesses with federal government procurement opportunities.

Dalian is a hardware and software cybersecurity company that I founded 23 years ago. As much as possible, we prioritize the hiring of indigenous employees and the deployment of indigenous consultants to work on projects for the Government of Canada.

Dalian and Coradix are in a joint venture under the procurement strategy for indigenous business. We established this joint venture in 2004. In the joint venture, Dalian provides professional services in cybersecurity and networking, and Coradix provides IT professional services.

In every project for the Government of Canada, Dalian follows all procurement and contracting rules and policies. We deliver according to scope of work or the task authorizations that we receive, and we only invoice for work performed, completed and signed-off by technical authorities or according to the terms and conditions of the contract.

Meegwetch.

Now I will pass it off to Mr. Wood.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I'm sorry, Mr. Wood. Before you start, we have another point of order, so if you could just bear with us for a second....

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Given the unfortunate late start we had as a result of votes, I'm hoping that we might be able to get the witnesses to stay for an extended period of time. We started close to 40 minutes late. I'm hoping that perhaps we could get their assurance to stay until the six o'clock hour, something along those lines. That would be very much appreciated, Mr. Chair, given the late start we had.

Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I think they have confirmed for an hour from our start time.

Gentlemen, are you able to stay longer than that?

4:10 p.m.

Colin Wood President, CORADIX Technology Consulting Ltd.

That's correct. We made accommodations to our schedules, and we can stay for the hour that we committed to.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Can you stay past the hour? That is the question from one of our colleagues on the committee.

4:10 p.m.

President, CORADIX Technology Consulting Ltd.

Colin Wood

The hour.... We're comfortable with the hour.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

We are not.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

We do have them for the one hour from the start time.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Mr. Wood, please go ahead with your five minutes, please.

4:10 p.m.

President, CORADIX Technology Consulting Ltd.

Colin Wood

Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, my name is Colin Wood. I joined Coradix in 2016 and have been president since November 2021.

I am also a director at Dalian. I have been working in the IT professional services sector for more than 20 years. Coradix is an IT consulting company that has been operating for close to 30 years—since 1995.

Dalian is a hardware and software cybersecurity company that has been operating for more than 20 years. Coradix and Dalian are in a joint venture under the procurement strategy for indigenous businesses.

Coradix and Dalian share a two-floor commercial office in downtown Ottawa. We have several corporate functions including business development, proposal services, account management and administration. We have more than 40 employees and currently have 475 consultants working on a range of IT projects for the Government of Canada.

Over the years Coradix and Dalian have provided IT products and services to most federal government organizations. We have also provided thousands of IT consultants with a broad range of technical skills, expertise, education, training and experience to support, implement and successfully deliver hundreds of projects for the Government of Canada departments and agencies.

In every project for the government, Coradix and Dalian follow all procurement and contracting rules and policies. We deliver according to the scope of the task authorizations we receive, and only invoice for work performed, completed and signed off by technical authorities according to the terms and conditions of the contract.

The outsourcing of IT professional services is an effective approach that allows the government to access the leading-edge skills and expertise that it needs to plan and execute specific projects within a defined period of time. These specialized expertise and skills are not available internally.

Coradix and Dalian compete for, maintain and manage a variety of standing offers and supply arrangements with numerous federal government organizations. We've also obtained and maintain a variety of security clearances for our company, employees and consultants, which allow us to work on highly sensitive and confidential projects. There is, of course, a business cost to all this.

On projects we undertake for the government, we provide task response and administration project planning, contract management, account management, security clearances and CISD administration, and administrative functions including contracting, invoicing, and payments to employees, consultants, and contractors.

These consultants, who provide services to the government, report to and are under the direction, supervision and control of Government of Canada employees.

On ArriveCAN, in May 2020, Coradix and Dalian began receiving task authorization requests to support software development work on mobile applications. This was under our task-based informatics professional services contract with the CBSA.

From May 2020 to May 2023, we provided 20 IT professionals to perform various functions on the ArriveCAN project, including software development, testing, project management, technology architecture and cybersecurity.

The billing rates for these IT professionals ranged from $540 to $1,000 per day depending on the service they were providing, their level of expertise and their experience. These rates are consistent with market rates for IT professional services.

While this does not in any way relate to ArriveCAN, I would like to use my remaining time to provide a few comments relating to Botler.

On November 11, 2020, we were contacted by CBSA for a a task authorization under our BTID contract.

GC Strategies was informed by CBSA that we had received the task request for these services. They then contacted us to advise that they had a team with the experience and expertise that CBSA was seeking to work on this project. GC Strategies provided us with the CVs of the Botler team, which we then submitted to CBSA with our task authorization response.

This project with CBSA was deliverable-based. There were six expected deliverables, each with a budget of $70,000. CBSA received and accepted two of the six anticipated deliverables provided by Botler and were paid $112,000 by GC Strategies. Coradix and Dalian were paid $14,000 per deliverable for the tasking oversight account planning and management, security clearances and administration services related to the project, as well as accepting the overall risk associated in a deliverables-based task authorization.

On December 14, 2021, CBSA advised Coradix, Dalian, GC Strategies and Botler that they were terminating their project. This happens when the client decides the project is no longer needed or is not meeting expectations in terms of quality, timelines and/or budget.

That is the extent of our dealings with Botler.

Mr. Chair, thank you.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Mr. Wood.

We'll start with Mrs. Kusie for six minutes, please.