Evidence of meeting #84 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
I'm not interested in those. I'm interested in GC Strategies.
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I had open interactions with many vendors.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
Can you tell me when your similar interactions started with Dalian and Coradix?
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Around August 2019, Coradix won a fair and competitive contract.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Was that the first time that you had an interaction with them?
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I may have had interactions throughout my career with Dalian and Coradix, but there was no business that I'm aware of.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
What was your role in the, I believe, $21.1-million open contract that was given to Dalian and Coradix?
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I was just the director general. There was a procurement team and a technology team that would have done all of the requirements and assessments, working with our procurement team at CBSA.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
No. I have no role in procurement.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Kristian Firth sent me an email about Botler AI on November 19.
It was a proposal that he submitted, jointly branded with a proposal to do a pilot.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
Is it customary for you or any department to receive unsolicited proposals?
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Mr. Chair, we receive unsolicited proposals from the private sector all the time. From Mr. Firth and GC Strategies, in particular, I would say I would get six a year.
We get them from all types of vendors. During the pandemic, we got more.
November 7th, 2023 / 4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Can you tell me how GC Strategies knew about...? Well, I assume they followed Bill C-65.
How would they know to put a proposal to you for the AI application?
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
I believe Mr. Firth was meeting with multiple departments. Bill C-65 was coming down across the entire government.
I received an unsolicited proposal. My understanding is that they went to nine different departments and did the same thing.
I couldn't tell you.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
Did you at any time guide GC Strategies or Botler AI partners in how to prepare for the presentation? Did you guide them at any time, on a real-time basis, as they were presenting these...?
4:30 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Mr. Chair, I provided some evidence. I have a bilateral note from a meeting with my boss at which I was told to meet with Botler and to prepare them for an executive-ready presentation.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
It means they should have an understanding of the CBSA. They should have an understanding of the government context. They should understand what the business problem is that the CBSA is trying to solve.
At the time, when they were presenting, they did multiple presentations. On December 6, I was not there for the VP presentation. Minh Doan told this committee that he did not follow up and he did not write to Kristian Firth, but he did, and I can submit that email in writing to the committee.
After that, he told me that they were very green, that they presented themselves well, but they were long and they didn't present their technology. He had a problem with that. I have emails that I submitted to the committee that show this.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
Did you at any time guide either GC Strategies or Botler to in any way embellish their résumé to fit the profile? We've heard repeatedly that their résumé was embellished, and GC Strategies has acknowledged that.
Was there any time where you directly or indirectly communicated to GC Strategies that you wanted Botler AI, and if their résumé fit, the job was theirs?
4:35 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
No. At no time did that ever happen, sir.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
What is the general IT supply and service agreement with Dalian and Coradix?
4:35 p.m.
Former Director General, Business Application Services Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
At CBSA, they had what were called omnibus contracts. The reason it was $21 million is that it was supposed to last four or five years.
Antonio and I started within about six months of each other. We were borrowing other people's contracts to get work done when we needed it, so we put in place our own contract. It was supposed to last four or five years. Dalian ended up winning that competition competitively. It was out on the street for vendors to bid on. That's why that contract was around.
