Evidence of meeting #85 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A video is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Supply Specialist, Professional Services Procurement Directorate, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, absolutely.
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
Supply Specialist, Professional Services Procurement Directorate, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It was to investigate the matter and bring it up to Dalian and Coradix.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
But who made the final decision that this wasn't the problem of CBSA, that you could resolve it yourself? Who made the final decision that you could simply say back to Botler, “We wash our hands of this. We consider the case closed from our part. You're going to have to work it out with the other individuals”? Who made that final decision?
5 p.m.
Supply Specialist, Professional Services Procurement Directorate, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It was a collective decision.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Who made the final decision? Ms. Chan, there must have been one person who said, “Do you know what? We're not going to deal with this. We're not going to get involved. This is the way it is in the Government of Canada. People get paid outlandish amounts. This is the way contracting is. We just sign the sections.”
I was very fortunate to be with Global Affairs Canada for close to 15 years. I was a management consular officer there. I've been through procurement strategies. Certainly I'll admit that I haven't received the extent of training you have, but the outlines for what classifies as a sole proprietorship are very clear, and what it is when these conditions are not met when there is a contract you are drawing from with a preferred supplier.
It is astounding that these contracts were four times over the amount. The rules are very clear, very precise, but at the same time we have our own judgments as individuals and as teams as to where we go. This doesn't make sense. This is an outlandish amount. At some place, the buck has to stop. Somewhere, someone has to take responsibility.
Who made the final decision that it was not for you to decide, that your organization could wash their hands of it and you could just write that note to Ms. Dutt and say that Canada is not involved and they have to work it out with these other three shady companies?
5:05 p.m.
Supply Specialist, Professional Services Procurement Directorate, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I will repeat myself that it was a collective decision that was based on the evidence we were provided by the contractors. It was also in consultation with a legal adviser. I came to that conclusion. I shared that conclusion with my supervisors—Ms. Mansour, Ms. Durigan. All three of us agreed. I executed it and I sent the email.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Okay. You're taking personal responsibility for that.
I have some more news for the committee. In that June 5 email, it does say, “Canada has determined”. Well, as outlined on the Government of Canada buyandsell.gc website, Canada is defined as “His Majesty the King in right of Canada as represented by”—wait for it—“the Minister of Public Works and Government Services”, so Canada is someone. It is a minister, and they are ultimately responsible for what has happened here today, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, with my remaining time, I would please just like to check in on the situation with Mr. Doan, who of course appeared before this committee previously. We had discussed, based upon the outcome of his initial appearance, that we would be interested in having a further conversation with him.
Where are we at, please, with his appearance?
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We have not set a date or sent a request or an invitation to him just yet.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We'll send out an invitation, yes. For the other ones made the other day, I understand that we agreed there would be a summons for them, but for Mr. Doan it would be an invitation.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Has he shown any reluctance to appear? If he has, I am ready to present a motion to summons him.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
We have not contacted him yet, but I worry about that, as we have seen a fair amount of reluctance for witnesses, period, to show up today. I'll be honest.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
I hope he's listening and he understands that he certainly can be summoned, as other individuals have been.
Thank you, Chair.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to the committee. Right off the bat, did any of you three show any reluctance to come to this committee?
5:05 p.m.
Manager, Professional Services Procurement Directorate, Department of Public Works and Government Services
No, we did not.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
I'm going to follow up on the line of questioning my colleague MP Kusmierczyk started. I will start with Mr. Mills.
When the ArriveCAN requirement was submitted to PSPC, which is your department, were a number of firms identified, or did you guys go through the approved list you had? Did you run a...? What was the process?
5:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thanks for the question.
My understanding is that with respect to the GC Strategies contract, CBSA approached the department and said they had a requirement to move quickly to build a technology solution to support their administration of the borders and to protect the health of Canadians from COVID-19. They had identified GC Strategies as a firm with the ability, the readiness and the capability to do it, and they had a sole-source justification for going forward with that firm.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Okay. PSPC did not run any process, because it was identified as a sole source.
November 9th, 2023 / 5:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
This was April 2020. It was the eye of the storm of the pandemic and they needed to move urgently. They had identified this company and had a sole-source justification, which was in line with the emergency contracting authorities at the time.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Out of the 10,000, let's say—and I'm hearing that number, so I'm referring to that—roughly how many of those contracts went through such a sole-source process?
5:05 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. I'm drawing a blank, but I believe on an annual basis, probably more than 80% are competitively awarded in terms of our contracts. We'd have to get back to you with the number.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Please do.
I have another question, and anybody can answer it.
Does PSPC at any time look at the scope of the work or do you just say you understand what the ask is and go out and look for vendors? Do you look at the scope of the work and look at the type of resourcing needed?
5:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We look at the scope at a very high level, particularly with respect to these instruments, because we need to make sure that there are different streams within the TBIPS and we need to make sure that the scope of work aligns with the appropriate stream. Once contracts are bid and proposals and task authorizations are put forward, we make sure that the actual work is aligned with the stream that was initially awarded when we awarded the contract.