Evidence of meeting #97 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks. That is our time.
We are now going to Mr. Sousa, please. Go ahead.
1:35 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Brennan, it seems to me we've been discussing three issues with regard to your activity. You've had accusations made against you.
One is that you've been lying with regard to certain issues with respect to the semantics of the word “fibbing”. Another one, most recently made by Mr. Brock, is that you've overcharged on issues that you've worked on. The last one is around this notion of lobbying.
We've discussed the issue of what happened with regard to the fib. For the benefit of this committee, can you explain the billing that you did with regard to Botler?
1:40 p.m.
Professional Consultant, As an Individual
Sure. I was contacted in February last year by a law firm, and that law firm asked for significant pieces of information. We were in discussions, if you will, of whether they were in the scope of the contract, or not, that I signed with Botler.
I said I would go and do that work if they paid me for the time I sat on meetings for Botler—not for the federal government, but meetings that I sat on for Botler. If they paid me for those, I would go and do that extra work, and that's where that invoice came from.
When I sent the invoice to their legal firm, they sent it back saying, “No, this belongs to GC Strategies.” I was led to believe that they were no longer in business, so I just sent it back and threw it on the pile, thinking that it might just be...you know, along with GC Strategies, that I'd get paid for the work they were asking me to do.
I have not heard anything from them since.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
All you've been paid by Botler or with regard to this activity was the $2,000 plus?
January 17th, 2024 / 1:40 p.m.
Liberal
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
The third issue that's come up is around lobbying. You know what lobbying is, and you know the Canadian lobbying registry.
You're familiar with the term. You're familiar with the activity, the limitations and the requirements, so can you explain to this committee why you're not a lobbyist? This is just for the purposes of making it very clear what you do and what you don't do.
1:40 p.m.
Professional Consultant, As an Individual
I am actually a business process.... As I said previously, I work in business resource management, identifying, if you will, new business processes, consolidation, efficiencies and the effectiveness of different processes. I do not set up meetings. I do not have high-level meetings with anybody—not with any elected officials or anybody in power.
My business model is specific to my CV, and that's how I make my money. I don't even have those relationships. I don't have a Rolodex to even be conceived of as a lobbyist.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
When you drafted a letter with regard to enabling Botler to reach out, that was on behalf of Botler. Who signed that letter?
1:40 p.m.
Professional Consultant, As an Individual
Again, I used GEDS, because I don't know who's who in the zoo.
It would have been the Botler executive who signed that letter.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
They're the ones who actually wrote the letter, which you just helped draft. Is that correct?
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
You're not lobbying. You're not receiving compensation for your contacts. You don't have contact directly with elected officials or, in some cases, bureaucrats, unless it's come as a result of the contract that you're performing—the three or four different ones that you've mentioned.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
In terms of charging your billing with regard to this and whether you double-dipped.... You received only $2,500. You did not receive additional monies. You—
1:40 p.m.
Professional Consultant, As an Individual
And that was with Botler. It wasn't even with the federal government.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
That's fair enough.
You are alleged to not be telling the truth here today because of a misquote or a quote in the paper.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you, Mr. Sousa.
We'll go to Mrs. Vignola, please, for two and a half minutes.
1:40 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Brennan, I won't go through everything that my colleague just listed, but exaggeration was brought up. In your opinion, does Mr. Firth have high-ranking contacts? At any point in your conversations, did he himself talk about high-ranking contacts?
1:40 p.m.
Professional Consultant, As an Individual
I don't recall the conversation, and I can't comment on his relationships.
1:40 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Okay.
I wonder if it's possible that people sometimes interpret or say things related to—I don't know if you're familiar with Jean de La Fontaine's fable in which the frog thinks it's a bull. The frog is very small and it very loudly proclaims that it knows everyone and is therefore important, whereas it isn't important at all, or at least not very important.
Isn't this situation similar to the frog that thinks it's a bull?
1:45 p.m.
Professional Consultant, As an Individual
I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question.