Evidence of meeting #98 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigation.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It says, on October 13, 2022, “PSPC and CBSA ArriveCAN”.
Did you attend the meeting?
2:05 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I don't recollect. If it was in my calendar, I likely did. However, I don't recollect that meeting in particular.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
It seems that the meeting would have been important to your committee strategy because we have an email on October 21 that says, “Both PSPC and CBSA pushed to have all depts do remarks if they can, for time management and putting our narrative out there”, so it seems like there was a time management strategy developed. It relates directly to your appearance at committee.
Do you have any recollection of it now with that having been offered?
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Would you be able to table for this committee the prep materials that you would have had or a slide deck?
Do you have the title of the slide deck on ArriveCAN lessons learned? Are you familiar with that document?
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Could you table that with the committee?
2:05 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I believe, if it's the one I'm thinking of, it was presented to the Treasury Board. However, yes, I can.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
You undertake to provide that to the committee. Thank you.
The PCO, in the documents that we reviewed, also said that it wanted to review all documentation being requested by the committee. Was the PCO involved with any of the redactions to the documents?
The CBSA was non-compliant with a legal order of this committee to provide full documents. We want to know if the PCO was involved in the restriction of the release of information that was lawfully requested by this standing committee.
2:05 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The CBSA makes redactions to its own documents.
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
What was the PCO's interest, then, in reviewing all of the documentation before it was submitted to the committee?
2:05 p.m.
Conservative
2:05 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both witnesses for being here today.
Ms. O'Gorman, has Botler co-operated in discussions? Have you had any discussions with any of the principals?
2:10 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I have not spoken personally with either of the principals. As I've said, we invited them to provide any material that was pertinent to the investigation. I have received three letters from Ms. Dutt over the course of my time here. I have not spoken to her personally.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Among the concerns the committee has is the way it was proceeding or it took shape, as you rightly noted in your opening remarks. They didn't actually have a contract. In fact, we're still not really certain as to what they were prepared to do or what was being asked of them, given that they were being proactive in their presentation to government, nor did GC Strategies have a contract. I know there was some inference made to that. Can you explain what has developed here, to your mind?
2:10 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
In recognizing that there will be further information and an internal investigation, based on the information that I've seen there was engagement, with officials from CBSA, GC Strategies, Botler, Coradix and Dalian getting involved in how the work of Botler would be brought to bear at CBSA.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
That is what was presented to the RCMP, am I not mistaken on that? Is that what was given to them?
2:10 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The allegations by Botler were passed to the RCMP.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
None of that has anything to do with ArriveCAN. Is that correct?
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Okay, so the RCMP is not investigating ArriveCAN, but you are. You're taking initial steps. Is that correct? Is that what this committee is being apprised of?
2:10 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
The investigation is looking into procurement practices at CBSA following on, frankly, the allegations that were provided by Botler. Botler brought to my attention some allegations that, if founded, would be extremely serious. Those were the basis for the launch of the investigation. The investigation is pursuing the information, I assume, based on what it is seeing and hearing in terms of the people they talk to and the documents they obtain.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Right, and so your disclosure and your engagement is to try to uncover, as much as possible, what has taken place. You're not trying to hide anything. You're actually trying to uncover more.
2:10 p.m.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I want to understand what happened, and I want to protect the integrity of the investigation and give it the time and space it needs to conclude.
2:10 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Sousa Liberal Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON
Mr. Ossowski, can you position what occurred at that time, given the urgency of the pandemic?
