Evidence of meeting #11 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Lalande  Mayor of Saint-Colomban, Union des municipalités du Québec
Deegan  President and Chief Executive Officer, News Media Canada
Bartlett  Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users
Elliott  Vice-President, Great West Media LP, News Media Canada
Jones  National President, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
Simpson  National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
McEwen  Legal Counsel, Canadian Postmasters and Assistants Association
Gallant  Negotiator, Canadian Union of Postal Workers

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Good morning, everyone. We are in session.

Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

We are continuing our study on Canada Post today. We have four opening statements.

Witnesses, please keep your opening statements to five minutes or less so that I don't have to cut you off.

Colleagues, because we have so many online today, if you're addressing questions, please specify who the question is for.

Those who are on Zoom, unless you're called specifically for a question, I'd ask that you refrain from speaking so that we're not talking over each other.

We'll start with our witnesses in-house.

Mr. Lalande, you have the floor for five minutes, please. Go ahead, sir.

Xavier-Antoine Lalande Mayor of Saint-Colomban, Union des municipalités du Québec

Mr. Chair, Madam Deputy Chair and honourable members of the committee, thank you for giving the Union des municipalités du Québec an opportunity to participate actively and constructively in the study on the situation at Canada Post.

My name is Xavier Antoine Lalande. I’m the mayor of Saint Colomban and I'm representing the Union des municipalités du Québec, or UMQ. I’m here with Ms. Anabelle Martini, policy coordinator at the UMQ.

I'd like to start by saying that for the past 100 years, the UMQ has brought together local governments from all regions of Quebec.

UMQ members represent over 85% of Quebec’s population.

UMQ recognizes the financial challenges facing Canada Post. We also understand the need for reform to enable the organization to adapt its business model to current realities. However, this reform must be guided by a logic that's based on geographic equity and social cohesion. It cannot be carried out at the expense of local communities, particularly the most vulnerable individuals.

It's with that in mind that we're making three key recommendations today.

Our first recommendation is to maintain local postal services in all the regions. The announced end on the moratorium on post offices has raised major concerns for municipalities in Quebec. These points of service play a structural role in the social and economic life of many communities. They are landmarks and connection points where people come together.

Closing them down is therefore not a trivial matter because it could make town centres and village hubs, which have already weathered tough economic times, more vulnerable. This could have a significant impact on the local social fabric and access to services. For example, some people would have to travel dozens of kilometres to get to the nearest post office. It's important to safeguard against deepening regional inequalities, creating service deserts or complicating access for seniors and people with reduced mobility.

The UMQ is therefore recommending that any changes to the Canada Post business model be designed to reflect local realities and involve consultation with municipalities.

Other solutions should also be considered, such as integrating retail outlets into local businesses or reviewing the frequency of door-to-door mail delivery. In addition, the future of Canada Post buildings, which are often strategically located, should be considered in consultation with municipalities to ensure that their eventual conversion effectively addresses local needs.

Our second recommendation is on the need for coordinated planning for the installation of community mailboxes.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I know the meeting is televised, but it's difficult to focus. I do understand that the witness is speaking in French and that some people don't listen to evidence in French, but there's a lot of movement. I'd ask that members respect our witness.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Madam.

Please continue, Mr. Lalande. You have two more minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Mayor of Saint-Colomban, Union des municipalités du Québec

Xavier-Antoine Lalande

Thank you.

Our second recommendation is on the need for coordinated planning for the installation of community mailboxes. The UQM believes that this should be a joint undertaking between Canada Post and municipalities. We believe that structured collaboration from the outset is the key to harmonized integration.

This would make it possible to reflect local realities, the principles of land use planning and design while avoiding potential conflict of use. Special consideration should be given to the most densely populated areas where space, safety and cohabitation challenges may complicate the installation of these mailboxes.

The UQM is calling on Canada Post to start looking into existing systems, such as post office boxes, with a view to ensuring the continuity of public service and optimizing existing resources.

Our third recommendation is on the recognition of municipal mailings as an essential service in the event of a strike. As you may be aware, there is a municipal-wide election in Quebec, and there have been major issues over the past few weeks.

Most municipal mailings include tax bills and election voter cards that encourage people to vote. Their delivery cannot be compromised. The impacts of the latest ongoing conflict speak for themselves. Nearly six million voters were affected by delays in receiving their voter registration cards for this year's municipal elections. Voter cards are often the only way to reach these people, and so this situation will no doubt have a direct impact on voter turnout.

Municipalities with over 20,000 residents are required to send out these documents. However, they have had to resort to costly alternatives, such as private courier service. For example, the City of Montreal was forced to spend nearly $3 million to distribute voter cards for this year's election.

During the December 2024 labour conflict at Canada Post, the delivery of tax bills was affected, and this created cashflow challenges for municipalities that depend on these mail-outs for their funding and operations.

The UMQ therefore recommends that these mail-outs be included in essential services agreements between parties prior to a labour dispute.

In closing, I'd like to stress that municipalities are not simply users of postal services. They're strategic partners. They're willing to collaborate on a reform that meets local needs, protects access to local services for all Canadians and strengthens social ties.

It's crucial that this reform be designed with the municipalities, without compromising the socio-economic development or the vitality of Quebec regions.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Mr. Lalande.

Mr. Deegan, the floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

Paul Deegan President and Chief Executive Officer, News Media Canada

Thank you very much, Chair.

Good morning, and thank you for this opportunity to speak about Canada Post.

News Media Canada represents 550 news titles across Canada, everything from large national newspapers to two-person independent weekly community newspapers. I am joined today by my colleague, Murray Elliott, from Olds, Alberta.

Before I begin, let me state the obvious. Canada Post is not financially viable without significant changes. Absent a wholesale restructuring, it will continue to lose millions of taxpayer dollars a day.

At the same time, Canada Post is an important national institution. Like our newspapers, its stamps tell the story of Canada and Canadians. By way of example, in 2021, Canada Post unveiled five stamps that celebrated five of Canada's great editorial cartoonists. One example was Terry Mosher of the Montreal Gazette. Aislin, as he is known, depicted a beaver sporting a hockey jersey with a maple leaf playing a bear whose jersey said CCCP.

I cannot stress enough how important Canada Post is as an important distribution vehicle for many community newspapers across Canada, especially in rural and remote parts of the country. We deeply appreciate the work that the thousands of postal employees do to get our newspapers to Canadians despite rain, snow, sleet or hail. However, the current leadership of both Canada Post and CUPW have shown a disregard for community newspapers. They seem to have forgotten that we are customers, and well-paying ones at that.

Let me cite two recent examples where publishers, many of whom are small businesses, have been harmed. First, as of January 2024, community newspapers with commercial inserts are no longer exempt from Canada Post's consumers' choice program, which allows Canadians to opt out of receiving junk mail. Like advertisements on the pages of a newspaper, commercial inserts or fliers pay for the content our journalists produce in those newspapers.

Let me be clear. Community newspapers with a flyer from the local grocery store or hardware franchise are not junk mail. Here is what the impact of that decision looks like on the ground. The loss of $120,000 in annual flyer revenue to a community newspaper supports three jobs. Without that revenue, those three jobs are at high risk. This arbitrary decision was made with zero stakeholder consultation or economic and social impact analysis. We hope Parliament will direct Canada Post to reverse this decision.

Second, the recent decision by CUPW in September to escalate strike activity by neither processing nor delivering unaddressed flyers called neighbourhood mail, whether intended or not, held our community newspapers hostage. It deprived many Canadians of fact-based and fact-checked information that our journalists produce. Again, let me stress that community newspapers are not junk mail.

While some of our publishers have service issues with their local postal station, these are generally isolated. Canada Post has dramatically improved its resolution process in the last few years. For that, I would like to single out and thank Mark Nailer and Julie Plouffe from Canada Post's commercial mail division. They are always extremely helpful and responsive.

You may ask, “Why don't you just abandon print and go digital? Wouldn't that solve your distribution problems and your reliance on Canada Post?” With foreign tech giants creaming most of the digital ad dollars in this country, the economics of digital just don't work for many. Digital ad dollars may be able to support large operations with scale or niche publications devoted to unpaid commentary, but we still need print ads and flyers to support a newsroom of full-time local journalists who do the painstaking work of covering the cops, courts and city hall. Real news costs real money.

Speaking of digital ad dollars, I would encourage this committee to examine federal ad spending. The government's agency of record is doing what is easiest and most profitable for it. In 2023-24, the government spent more than $76 million on advertising. Of that, less than $1.4 million went to all print publications in the country combined.

Taxpayer dollars should be spent in Crowsnest Pass, not in California, and on companies that deliver facts rather than those whose algorithms foment misinformation and disinformation. The government should follow the province of Ontario's lead and announce in its upcoming November budget that it is setting aside a minimum of 25% of ad spending on trusted news brands. That is something this committee would appreciate as it would come at zero additional cost to the taxpayer.

Thank you very much. Murray and I would be pleased to answer your questions.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

We will now hear from Mr. Bartlett.

Please go ahead, sir.

Patrick Bartlett Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Patrick Bartlett, and I'm appearing on behalf of NAMMU, Canada’s not-for-profit mailing industry association.

We represent the full mail value chain: printers, mail service providers, data companies, suppliers and postage meter manufacturers. For over 30 years, we have worked collaboratively with Canada Post to support a strong national postal system.

I would like to focus on three issues today: the importance of mail and the mailing industry to Canada's economy, the significant impact of prolonged labour uncertainty and our response to the minister's proposed reforms at Canada Post.

The mailing industry matters to Canada's economy. The mailing industry is a major contributor to jobs, commerce and government revenue: $100 billion in annual revenue, approximately 5% of GDP and 700,000 Canadians employed mostly in small and medium-sized businesses. It's essential for billing, customer acquisition and order fulfillment. Mail represents a lifeline for small and medium-sized businesses. Four in five businesses rely on Canada Post: 73% mail cheques and invoices and 50,000-plus businesses and not-for-profits use postage meters.

Even with volume decline, mail still generates 50% of Canada Post's revenue, or about $3.1 billion annually. Mail density also enables Canada Post to remain competitive in parcels despite a higher cost structure. Marketing with physical mail drives higher engagement and response rates with strong recall, trust and presence cutting through digital clutter.

A commercially sustainable Canada Post is, therefore, fundamental to the industry, the businesses it supports and the Canadians it employs.

There is a cost that comes with labour uncertainty. Our sector is fully dependent on Canada Post for delivery. When the postal system stops, we stop. Over the last 18 months, businesses have been shuttered, employees have been laid off, cash reserves have been drained and major market campaigns have been delayed or cancelled. This is our peak season. Continued disruption is not survivable for many SMEs.

NAMMU respects the right to collective bargaining, but after nearly two years of negotiations, the parties are further apart, not closer. We therefore believe binding arbitration is now the only practical path to restore stability. Without urgent action, the consequence will ripple through the broader economy.

The reform direction is right; execution will matter. NAMMU generally supports the direction outlined by Minister Lightbound: flexibility in delivery standards, ending moratoriums on community mailbox conversion and rural post office closures—

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

Interpreters have said that sound is cutting in and out. They can hear the witness, but the connection probably needs to be checked out. I'm thinking of the interpreters' hearing.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

We're just going to pause for one second, Mr. Bartlett, and check with our interpreters.

Thanks for waiting. Thanks for your patience, Mr. Bartlett.

IT is telling us our connection is strong right now, so we'll try again.

Go ahead, Mr. Bartlett. You have two minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Patrick Bartlett

Thank you.

The reform direction is right; execution will matter. NAMMU generally supports the direction outlined by Minister Lightbound, including flexibility in delivery standards, ending moratoriums on community mailbox conversion and rural post office closures, and a faster and more effective process for stamp pricing decisions.

We agree that change is necessary. However, several safeguards are critical. Delivery reliability must remain non-negotiable. Delivering mail depends on items arriving within published timelines tied to sales and campaigns. Community impacts must be considered. Undertake changes with local consultation and sensitivity. Pricing must be predictable and commercially rational. Recent price actions, including reduced incentives and a 25% increase during a labour disruption, have accelerated with the decline of letter mail.

We recommend maintaining checks and balances appropriate to a monopoly, such as pegging rate increases to inflation and restoring meaningful price differentials for business mailers, including postage meter users. These will ensure revenue growth without destabilizing the industry.

In conclusion, Chair and members, NAMMU urges immediate action to end labour uncertainty through binding arbitration, responsible and disciplined reforms that preserve a sustainable national postal system and continued collaboration with industry to support Canadian jobs and economic activity. Canada needs a reliable and competitive Canada Post to support the businesses that power our economy.

Thank you for your invitation to appear today. I'm pleased to answer any questions.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you very much, Mr. Bartlett.

We'll start the six-minute round with Mrs. Jansen.

The floor is yours. Go ahead.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Mr. Bartlett, everyone in the room knows the writing was on the wall. Back in 2016, this very committee told the Liberal government exactly what needed to be done with Canada Post—modernizing delivery, finding new revenue streams and adapting before it was too late—but eight years later, those changes never happened.

Do you believe those recommendations should have been enacted sooner?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Patrick Bartlett

Yes. NAMMU worked with the government and the postal task force. We supported Canada Post's original five-point plan in 2013 and those changes, and we believe they should have been enacted at that time.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

The decline in letter mail wasn't a surprise. Canadians were paying bills online and businesses were moving to digital long before 2016. Did your association warn the government that those trends would accelerate?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

When you did that, what kind of response did you get?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Patrick Bartlett

They listened. The postal task force took our recommendations and thoughts seriously and produced them in the report. The parliamentary committee that was part of the postal review at the time dismissed the numbers, as I recall, and didn't think change was necessary.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

I'm sorry. Could you say that again? The committee dismissed the numbers. It didn't think they were....

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Patrick Bartlett

Yes. The numbers were projections that had been put forward by Deloitte and Canada Post and they are pretty close to where Canada Post is today. The loss is around $1 billion or so.

Canada Post was still profitable at the time, and the parliamentary committee basically concluded that it didn't believe the numbers and they didn't needed to be acted on immediately.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

Some of the big ideas from 2016 were diversifying revenue, expanding parcels, partnering with private delivery networks and even exploring new financial services. Instead, we got inaction.

How much opportunity was lost because the government failed to act when there was still time?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Patrick Bartlett

I don't think I can answer that. It would be a significant number. It's safe to say that Canada Post would not be in the position it is in today if there had been action at that time.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC

For your members, the major mail users, this isn't just theory; it's day-to-day operations. I am also hearing from small and medium-sized businesses in my riding that Canada Post's mail delivery is essential to them with all of the things you mentioned.

How has this delay hurt your members?

11:20 a.m.

Executive Director, National Association of Major Mail Users

Patrick Bartlett

I think one of the critical ways that it's hurt members has certainly been in pricing. Canada Post has taken a little bit of an uneven approach to pricing. For letter mail, it has done consistent increases for commercial mail but did not do increases for stamps. For instance, there used to be a 10¢ incentive to use meters, and now that's dropped down to one cent. Because Canada Post has not been able to raise the ceiling with stamps, it's had to take money from the industry through price increases.