Evidence of meeting #11 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.
A recording is available from Parliament.
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I'll have my colleague answer.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm afraid we don't have time for a response, unless you can do it in about five seconds. However, we welcome written submissions to the committee. You can provide one—the same goes for you, Mr. Jones—if there are any outstanding questions you want answer.
Jim Gallant Negotiator, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Can I give a 10-second response?
Negotiator, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
The 10-second response is that you're shocked because you have not talked to the union. Parliamentarians are starting to talk to the union, and that's what needs to happen, because everything you're being told by Canada Post is not the truth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks. We still welcome any written submissions as well.
We'll go to Mr. Patzer for five minutes.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
I'm going to cede my time for this round to Mr. Boulerice.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank my colleague for ceding this important speaking time.
I'd like to thank our guests from union.
I'll continue with the discussion on the potential conflict of interest.
Canada Post's market share is dropping even as Purolator's share of parcel delivery is going up. We know that this is the most profitable postal business.
However, Canada Post’s CEO is on Purolator's board of directors.
With this particular case of potential conflict of interest, is it possible that Canada Post has been deliberately set up to lose money?
Negotiator, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Yes, that is true. At the bargaining table, Canada Post has told us it thinks it can contract out all of the parcels it delivers in Canada. That's part of the problem the union faces at the table.
We see the conflict of interest in a deeper way. We have somebody sitting at the table who wants, for lack of a better word, to water down a collective agreement and gut the service. That's their objective, at this point, and they use their yearly reports to do that.
It's very easy for any company to show it's overspent. While we're sitting here today, parking lots are being paved at post offices and things like that. It says it's losing $10 million a day, but it's spending more than it's bringing in, and that's not good for any business. It's not good for a public service.
The union has given ideas. Ms. Simpson said in her opening that $376 million was added to the revenue in the first two quarters because Parliament approved the raise on postage that began on January 13 this year. If you extrapolate that over the year, Canada Post would have had somewhere around $1 billion in new revenue had there been collective agreements signed and stability brought back to the post office.
Negotiator, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
The post office has not been genuine with parliamentarians, with the government. Everything is shaded. It started off that they were losing. They went from 62% to 29% of the e-commerce market. Now they've changed their narrative, saying that they've lost all of their parcel market. It's ever-changing. If people don't pay attention, they will make it so that we lose this service, when it could be profitable as it stands.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Gallant. That's an important piece of information.
The Liberal government has announced the end of home delivery service. This reduction in service affects 4 million Quebeckers and Canadians directly. It also means the loss of good unionized jobs. The minister can say that cutbacks will be done by attrition, but we know that attrition means that a young person will not get access to a job at Canada Post.
Based on your assessments, how many good unionized jobs will be lost through the end of home delivery service?
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Many thousands of good unionized jobs will be lost with this plan, which the government wants to put forward. For us, they've made $376 million in the first two quarters. They have the ability to bring back the parcels and to grow the business. There's no need, at this time, for Canada Post to look at cutting any services.
We need to have the full public mandate review so that we can actually hear what's needed by Canadians and have actual accurate information provided so that we can all assess it. We haven't heard the numbers for what they're bringing in. We've only heard what they've lost, the narrative of $10 million a day. How much are they actually bringing in, though?
At the IIC, Mr. Kaplan's report follows what Mr. Ettinger said. They're going to make $80 million a year with a stamp increase this year. We saw them make $376 million in the first two quarters. That's almost four times off what he actually projected it to be.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Perhaps I have time for a final question.
Ms. Simpson, you suggested diversified sources of revenue for Canada Post. Mr. Jones told us about government services in rural post offices.
What would the union recommend to increase Canada Post’s revenue to ensure the continuity of this very essential service?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm afraid we are past our time, Mr. Boulerice.
Again, I welcome a written submission. We've heard it before in this committee, but perhaps you can provide an updated one in writing to the clerk. We'll have it put in both languages and sent out to everyone.
Mr. Gasparro, we'll finish up with you.
Liberal
Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for coming. It's greatly appreciated.
A lot of us have talked about how we don't want to see Canada Post continue to be an ongoing concern, not only for us but also for our kids and our grandkids. Obviously, the mail business has changed. We've seen it globally. This isn't a Canadian issue; it's a global change. In mail delivery by Canada Post, over the last few years, we've seen a decrease from five billion pieces of mail down to two billion. The increase in the stamp rate, as was mentioned, could be a solution. The other side of the equation is that it could accelerate the decrease in mail that's being delivered.
What I'd like to really get a sense of, from your perspective, is this. How do you envision Canada Post operating in, say, 2050, when our kids and grandkids will be looking to Canada Post? I really just want to focus on the future. Let's not look backwards. What does a future Canada Post look like that Canadians can continue to enjoy and to utilize, while at the same time being sustainable economically?
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
For us, Canada Post has to consult with the Canadian public. That's number one. We see a change in the country. Houses are growing and apartments are growing, but we need to have to-the-door delivery. We know that Canada Post's biggest profit will come off of the parcel delivery model. We see the competitors going to the door multiple times a day. Canada Post is actually doing last-mile delivery in the rural and remote areas where these companies cannot go.
For me, the vision is of a public post office that's inclusive of all Canadians and that meets its service mandate to serve all Canadians no matter where they live. It's not to be cutting back. We know that there is an aging population happening right now. Having community mailboxes at these homes will increase the number of people who won't have access to their own homes and live independently. Since Canada Post implemented the community mailboxes and the disability program to get accommodations, only 17,000 households have been approved for this service. For us, that's not enough.
You need to consult. For us, you need to negotiate collective agreements that are ratifiable. We heard that it is very important for these rural and remote areas and for municipalities to have delivery of their newspapers as well. Unfortunately, Canada Post didn't consult with us when they changed the classification of the newspapers.
For me, it's a public post office that serves Canadians no matter where they are. It's inclusive. It doesn't provide a “gigafied” workplace. We know that weekend work is very important, but weekend work has to be with a livable wage so that people can actually support themselves and feed their families. To see postal workers having to go to food banks, or anybody going to food banks, is not acceptable. You know in Toronto what the rent looks like right now. People cannot afford it.
We hear Canada Post say that they are unable to retain workers. They need to improve their wages and talk to Canadians to make sure they expand the public post office. Right now they're working with KOHO bank to do banking. We see that many banks are leaving communities right now. We saw many leave during COVID. I know that in the Atlantic provinces some people have to take two days to go to a bank.
We are also able to offer Service Ontario services at our front counters, as Dwayne mentioned earlier on. We used to do passport services. We used to conduct student loan processing as well. Canada Post has the ability, being sometimes the only federal building in some communities, to offer services beyond mail delivery and to expand these services, but also to expand and make sure they go to the door of all customers who need it.
Liberal
Vince Gasparro Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Very quickly, do you see a world in which Canada Post can partner with private sector entities to diversify revenue sources?
National President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Yes, we do. They have that ability through consultation with the union. We can work together to see how that can happen. For us, that's what needs to be happening—ratifiable collective agreements to bring stability but also true consultation, not telling us after things have been implemented.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
That is your time, Mr. Gasparro.
Witnesses, thanks again for joining us at OGGO. We appreciate all the feedback. Again, if you have anything in writing that you weren't able to get to today, we would welcome any submissions.
With that, colleagues, we are adjourned. We'll see you Thursday.