Evidence of meeting #18 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pbo.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Matthews  Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Brunelle-Côté  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Boyer  Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to meeting 18 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, which is of course known in the four corners of the world as the mighty OGGO.

Today we welcome the Treasury Board minister and his officials.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(c), the committee is undertaking a study of supplementary estimates (B) for the fiscal year ending on March 31, 2026. In addition, we have departmental results 2024-25 for the Treasury Board.

Will you be making an opening statement, Minister?

3:30 p.m.

Brampton—Chinguacousy Park Ontario

Liberal

Shafqat Ali LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board

Yes.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Great. The floor is yours for five minutes. Please go ahead.

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

I am delighted to be here with my officials to discuss the 2025-26 supplementary estimates (B), which propose $10.8 billion in voted authorities. The investments listed in these estimates will support key priorities for Canadians, like dental care, indigenous support and defence.

First, the government is proposing $1.6 billion for the Department of Health to support the Canadian dental care plan. The plan is making dental care more accessible and affordable for more than 5.5 million lower-income Canadians.

These estimates also provide important funding for indigenous priorities, including $154.6 million for elementary and secondary education, and $705.9 million for emergency management in first nations communities. This funding will support response and recovery activities for natural disasters, loss of essential services and health crises in first nations communities.

The government is also rebuilding, rearming and reinvesting in the Canadian Armed Forces. Supplementary estimates (B) present an additional $1.1 billion in planned spending for the Department of National Defence, which includes $294.5 million for various multi-year defence investments and $215.1 million for the River class destroyers to replace aging vessels and enhance Canada's naval abilities. Funding in these estimates brings the total authorities for the Department of National Defence up to $46.7 billion for the 2025-26 fiscal year, which is an increase of roughly $12.2 billion from the previous years.

My department, the Treasury Board Secretariat, is seeking $926.8 million in funding. This proposed spending would be provided to departments and agencies to cover recently signed collective agreements with public servants. It would also fund public service insurance plans and programs, which have seen recent increases in coverage costs and claims.

I also want to briefly highlight our ongoing work to strengthen oversight, transparency and accountability through key reporting instruments such as the public accounts and departmental results report. The most recent public accounts provide Canadians with a clear and comprehensive picture of how public funds were managed over the last fiscal year, while the departmental results reports show how departments performed against their planned objectives. Together, these reports help ensure Parliament and Canadians can hold the government to account for both spending and results.

While we're making investments to support priority areas, we're also focused on finding savings. Through the comprehensive expenditure review, we will be reducing operational spending by $13 billion annually by 2028-29. These savings are drawn from efficiencies, as well as initiatives and activities that are no longer needed, effective or aligned with the federal mandate.

We are also returning the public service to a more sustainable size. This is a challenging but responsible action. We greatly value the public service and will act with compassion and transparency. One of the ways the government will support this transition is through voluntary early retirement incentives. This incentive will help reduce the size of the workforce through attrition and voluntary departures to the greatest extent possible.

In closing, we're investing more in what matters most for Canadians and growing our economy. This is a transformational time for the government to seize the moment. This is a time to reimagine how we work, how we can improve services to Canadians, how we can build for the future and how we can build Canada strong.

I look forward to answering your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, Minister.

Before we start with Mr. Kelly, I do want to note today is the 25th anniversary of working here with our amazing clerk, Marc-Olivier Girard, known as the Mighty MOG.

Congratulations to you. Thank you for 25 years of service.

The Clerk of the Committee Marc-Olivier Girard

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

We will now turn things over to Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Kelly, welcome back to OGGO.

The floor is yours.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Thank you.

It's good to be back here after an absence of quite a number of years.

Minister, you said that you're going to reduce and that there's a plan for a reduction of full-time equivalents. The public service right now, at least since September 2025, was down to 346,000 heading for a goal of 330,000. Much of the reduction that you were to make has already occurred. You have a few more to go, you said, mostly through voluntary reductions.

Why have you refused to provide the Parliamentary Budget Officer, and through him, parliamentarians, information to help us understand the personnel reductions that you have planned?

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

It is a really important question. The comprehensive expenditure review is aligned with our government commitment with Canadians to spend less, invest more and to balance our government operational budget in the next three years. That's exactly what we're focusing on.

In terms of your question about the PBO's letter, my team will be working to respond to his letter as soon as possible but the timing was not reasonable when the letter came in because we haven't finalized those details. It would be unfair as an employer for us, as a government, to give that information to the PBO before communicating with public service employees.

We will be providing a response to PBO.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Wait a minute, Mr. Minister.

On October 30, you told this committee that you would release the information of the comprehensive spending review to the PBO and you have failed to do so.

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

We said that we would provide it as soon as possible. The details were not finalized at the moment and it would have been unfair—

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Was the cabinet briefed on the reductions?

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

May I respond to your question—

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

It sounded like you're repeating your response to the question.

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

No, I'm not repeating. I'm giving you the reason that it would not have been reasonable to provide that information to the PBO.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt.

Madame Gaudreau.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

The interpreters are doing a great job, but people need to be able to finish what they're saying. We can't ask the interpreters to work miracles. I need to hear the full interpretation in French, Mr. Chair.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thanks.

Go ahead. Mr. Kelly.

Minister, he did ask a very straightforward question. I think the committee, parliamentarians and Canadians deserve a straightforward answer.

Mr. Kelly, I've restarted the clock. You have three minutes and 20 seconds.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Thank you.

Was cabinet not briefed on the reductions?

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

I would say that the details were not finalized and we would not be able to provide the information to PBO until we communicated with public service employees. We're dealing with public service employees' livelihood—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Okay.

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

We thank them for their service. I think it would have been unreasonable and unfair to share that information with someone else prior to communicating with public service employees. That's a reasonable, responsible way of [Inaudible—Editor]

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

No. Some would say it's an unlawful response. The Parliament of Canada Act allows the Parliamentary Budget Officer access to that information. You are denying information to the Parliamentary Budget Officer that is clearly laid out in the Parliament of Canada Act.

Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON

No, sir, we are not.

We will be providing information to the PBO. I can ask my deputy to fill you in further on that.