Evidence of meeting #18 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pbo.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK
Are you aware of it, though? The question is, are you aware of it?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
It was given prior to my becoming president of the Treasury Board, so I think it's.... I was not president at the Treasury Board when that was given.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thanks. That's our time.
We'll go to Ms. Rochefort, please, for five minutes.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll go in a line of questioning that's different from that of my colleague, Minister, and start with one that's close to my heart, to some extent.
People in my riding want to know that the spending review won't hurt bilingual services. In my riding, about a third of the population is francophone, and in Canada there are about 11 million francophone Canadians. Can you explain how the Treasury Board is making sure that English and French services stay strong and that our official language obligations are fully respected as we move forward with these estimates?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
I want to assure my colleague that nothing in the spending review will diminish our commitment to bilingual services. Canada's official language obligations are fully protected through clear rules and regulations, many of them established by the Treasury Board Secretariat to ensure that Canadians can always receive services in the official language of their choice.
We have also strengthened language requirements for managers in bilingual regions so that federal employees can work in the official language they are most comfortable with. These measures reinforce our commitment to strong, accessible English and French services across the country.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Thank you very much. That's very important. I appreciate that information.
To move forward, this week I had the opportunity to meet with the Public Service Alliance of Canada to discuss issues surrounding public service workers and services in rural Canada more specifically. I was happy to hear you state that there's an agreement in place as you move forward with the plans for attrition that have been agreed upon with the union.
The investments in these estimates, including funding for dental care, emergency management and compensation for federal public servants, all play a critical role in sustaining reliable services across rural and northern regions in Canada and in my riding. Basically, I want to make sure that as we move forward, if there are any cuts at a public service level, the service in rural Canada won't be negatively impacted. I was wondering if you might be able to comment on that.
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
The government is committed to making sure public service employees are treated fairly and with compassion and empathy.
There is a collective agreement in place, not on this particular thing, but overall between the union and the employer. In it there are tools to deal with this type of situation, and we will be dealing with it accordingly. We'll try to ensure that there is minimum impact in that involuntary workforce adjustment.
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you very much.
We'll go to Madame Gaudreau, please, for two and half minutes.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Why are we here? We asked the Parliamentary Budget Officer whether he could explain the new unit of measure to us. He said that he hadn't received any such explanation but would have one soon. Now that the request has been put out there, we will get answers.
We're examining forecasted budget requirements. I realize it's general information, but people want to know more. I mentioned earlier that 16,000 jobs were being cut. Now we're being told to put our questions to other ministers.
I have very little time, so I really feel like submitting all of my questions in writing, letting a few days go by, perhaps the weekend, in order to get the answers I'm looking for. Taxpayers want answers.
I will ask a few questions. We've talked about the collective agreements three times. I'm concerned about what the Auditor General and the Parliamentary Budget Officer told us. According to the numbers, salaries are going up by 7.8%. Why are salaries going up?
On one hand, the collective agreements contain ranges for pay increments. On the other, the government says it wants to cut 16,000 jobs. I don't understand. Why are salaries going up?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
As I said, that workforce adjustment was.... This government came with a commitment with Canadians to spend less and invest more, and to build the strongest economy in the G7, and to balance our operational budget in three years. That's exactly what we are doing.
In terms of the PBO situation, I have explained that already. I can restate that. We will be providing a response to the PBO.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I'm almost out of time, so I'm going to come back to my question.
The Auditor General said the government needs to stop contracting out work. However, salaries are increasing. In the end, she was right. You're cutting the number of public servants, who have all kinds of skill sets, and opting to contract out the work. There will be fewer employees, but more contractors.
I'll follow up on this after, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I'm afraid that's something you're going to have to get back to us in writing or perhaps later in the session.
We'll now go to Mrs. Jansen, please, for five minutes.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Thank you so much.
Minister, this is how I understand it. One of your core responsibilities is oversight of government spending, especially when there are numbers that reach into the billions.
Earlier this week, we learned that the Minister of Industry and her deputy minister did not review the Stellantis agreement in its entirety, a deal publicly reported to be around $15 billion, and naturally we're wondering if anyone actually reviewed the whole thing.
I realize you weren't there, but perhaps your colleagues can help. Did the Treasury Board see the full Stellantis contract before approving $15 billion in spending?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
As my colleague, you said that I was not there, and I can ask, if you allow, my deputy to respond to the question.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Please, yes. It's a yes or no if you saw the full contract.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Normally the way this would work is that the department responsible actually reviews the contracts. They would get authority from the Treasury Board to go ahead and transact deals, but it would not involve a page-by-page contract review.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Okay. You didn't see the whole thing either. That's interesting.
The Minister of Industry didn't see it, the deputy minister didn't see the whole thing, the Treasury Board didn't see the whole thing, and you're approving billions.
Minister, respectfully, how does a contract of this magnitude clear your department without anyone reviewing it?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
As the deputy just stated, there are delegated authorities to ministers.
There are certain authorities that are delegated to ministers. If those agreements or contract submissions are under those authorities, they can go ahead and move, get into contracts and—
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
I'm sorry.
I have a question now for Mr. Ali. I'm just wondering, are you concerned that if the industry minister and the deputy minister went to Treasury Board for approval of $15 billion without reviewing the full agreement.... I'm sorry: Are you concerned about that? Does that seem like a good process?
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
We actually have a robust process and procedure, and rules in place, and everyone adheres to...follow those rules. If the authorities are delegated to ministers, they are bound by those rules and regulations and policies. I expect that everyone follows those rules.
Liberal
Shafqat Ali Liberal Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON
If someone does not follow, there are rules to deal with it.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
If I understand it, you—or whoever it was at the time—are the person who has to worry about it and you have to be concerned about spending oversight.
It's your job to make sure they've actually fulfilled those obligations: The spending is justified, the risks are understood, the department has done its homework and taxpayers aren't getting taken for a ride.
Is there something we can do to ensure someone is held accountable for not actually fulfilling those things if we're not even checking?