Evidence of meeting #28 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Chisholm  Vice-President, Product Management and Customer Experience, Canada Post Corporation
Marier  Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
Clarkin  Director General, Corporate Services, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Mr. Chair, I just want to summarize what we've just seen.

There was a conclusion about free mail for the blind and libraries, and now we have a witness. That's one thing.

At the same time, for anything budget-related, we don't meet with anyone once the budget has been prepared. We're asking that representatives and ministers appear in person, but if that's not possible, they can also appear virtually, the goal being to have a discussion and get answers to our questions before moving on to the final vote.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

Thank you, Chair.

I wanted to let everybody know the reason Minister Lightbound is not available to come to committee. He is on paternity leave for a new baby. It's not that he has refused to attend. I know for a fact—I've had many conversations with the minister—that he is very attentive to what this committee has to say and has to contribute. He is not refusing; he is otherwise occupied.

I know that the President of the Treasury Board is more than willing and able to attend and answer any questions from the committee. I'm happy to connect with Minister Lightbound to see if a virtual option is available or if there are any other ways we can engage. However, I would appreciate it if we could all stop saying that the minister refused to attend, because that's not the case at all.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

It would be wonderful if the President of the Treasury Board would reconsider his date and would make it earlier. As I said, the clerk is already on that.

With regard to the minister and whatever term you wish to use, he's not attending to defend the estimates. There is $1 billion in Canada Post alone. We heard today, repeatedly, that there's no real plan to address it. There are lots of others. It will be wonderful if he is able to attend virtually for one hour.

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

There is a difference. When we accuse somebody of refusing, to me and to anybody listening or paying attention to what's happening in committee, it shows that they are actively not wanting to come to this committee. In this instance, the minister has not refused to attend, but he is otherwise occupied with his family and with his new baby.

I would appreciate it if we were a bit more careful with the language we use and with what we accuse our ministers of doing or not doing. I'm sure they are all trying their level best. Quite frankly, I'm not in any position to defend anybody. I just want to make sure that we are being accurate in how we portray people and their intentions.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Your point is taken. It's up to the committee to decide what language it will use or what interpretation it will have of Minister Lightbound's inability to join us, but we take your point.

We'll go to Ms. Block.

Once we're done, we'll suspend quickly and bring in our new witnesses. I think we have to do a sound check on someone as well.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK

I would have hoped that the information would be provided to the clerk and to the chair. It's not that we need to know all of someone's personal information, but that would have explained a lot.

In this instance, is someone taking on the responsibilities of the minister for PSPC while he is on paternity leave? I know it happens when other ministers take maternity leave, so I'm wondering if this will be a prolonged period and if that's been given any thought.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

We'll get back to you.

We'll go to Ms. Rochefort, and then we'll suspend.

Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

For the record, I am satisfied that the minister appeared twice and gave very—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

This is on the supplementary estimates. It's completely different.

Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

Nonetheless, he was present and gave us an opportunity to question him on many issues and options that might have evolved, so I'm satisfied with the excellent presentations he's made.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thanks.

I am not satisfied. There's $1 billion in Canada Post. Canada Post has been unable to send anyone who could provide any responses. It's also part of parliamentary tradition that ministers show up to defend their estimates.

We understand that Ms. Khalid will reach out to see if we can get at least one hour virtually, which I think will satisfy our requirements, but I appreciate the feedback.

Iqra Khalid Liberal Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON

I just want to say on the record that the minister has appeared three times in the past two months.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

I would also just like to put on the record—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Okay. We are getting—

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

—that he has not appeared for the supplementary estimates (B) either. He has avoided what the parliamentary tradition of this place actually is.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Now we're getting into a back-and-forth argument. I think our points have been made.

We'll suspend for about five minutes. We will do a test for one of our witnesses, and then we'll reconvene.

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thank you, everyone. We are back in session.

We welcome our witnesses from the Canada transport safety board.

Mr. Marier, I understand you have a five-minute statement. Before you start, I want to pay tribute to your predecessor, Ms. Fox. She was with us quite a few times over the years and was a fantastic representative for your department. Although I'm sure you'll do wonderfully, we miss her and we want to say thanks. I'm sure she's watching from home right now on CPAC. I want to offer a sincere thanks from our committee for the work that Ms. Fox did.

The floor is yours, please.

Yoan Marier Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board

Good afternoon. I'd like to thank the committee for inviting the Transportation Safety Board of Canada to be present today. I am joined by my colleagues Mélanie Scott, chief operating officer, and James Clarkin, director general of corporate services.

The TSB was created in 1990 by the Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board Act, referred to as the CTAISB Act. Our mandate, and sole purpose, is to advance safety in the air, marine, pipeline and rail modes of transportation under federal jurisdiction. We achieve this by conducting investigations, identifying safety deficiencies and making recommendations to prevent future accidents. We also communicate important safety issues to Canadians through our reports and outreach activities.

The TSB is independent. It operates at arm's length from government departments and agencies, reporting directly to Parliament through the President of the Kings Privy Council for Canada. This independence ensures impartiality and freedom from external influence. We are neither a regulator nor a court, and we do not assign fault or determine civil or criminal liability. We have one clear role: to improve transportation safety. In doing so, we play an essential role in protecting lives and ensuring public safety across Canada's transportation system.

Since its inception in 1990, the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, or TSB, has completed more than 2,000 investigations, made more than 630 recommendations, and issued hundreds of safety communications. We learn new lessons from every investigation, which fuels our commitment to improving transportation safety in Canada. Over the years, more than 84% of the responses to the board’s recommendations have been assessed as fully satisfactory, demonstrating the TSB’s concrete impact on the improvement of safety.

While this progress is real, significant risks remain. In October 2025 we released the latest edition of the TSB Watchlist, which highlights seven systemic safety issues that continue to put Canadians at risk. These are not isolated problems. They are long-standing, deeply rooted challenges that have appeared in investigation after investigation, across sectors and across the country. The watch list is both a warning and a road map. It shows where action is urgently needed, where progress has stalled and where sustained leadership from regulators and industry can prevent future tragedies. We will continue to keep these issues in the national spotlight until levels of risk have been measurably reduced.

Meeting these challenges requires the right tools, expertise and infrastructure for the future. This is why we are preparing for the new transportation safety and technology science hub at the National Research Council campus in Ottawa.

This state-of-the-art facility will allow for stronger collaboration, equip us with cutting-edge tools and enhance our ability to conduct rigorous investigations.

Even with this progress, the scale, complexity and public impact of our work continue to grow. In 2025 alone, there were 3,851 occurrences reported to the TSB. Currently, we are managing 86 active investigations nationwide, including the investigation into the highly publicized implosion of the Titan submersible during its descent to the Titanic and the investigation into the overturning of a Bombardier aircraft after it struck the runway while landing at Toronto airport.

We also continue to support hundreds of investigations led by our international counterparts, including the recently released investigation report into a helicopter that struck a passenger aircraft last year in Washington. We also lead investigations into international occurrences, such as the September 2025 incident in St. Martin, in which a WestJet aircraft's right landing gear collapsed on touchdown.

Collectively, these investigations, both domestic and international, reflect the global attention and scrutiny on transportation safety and the increasing technical complexity of our work.

Since the TSB's inception, we have delivered high-quality investigations. However, the risk profile is shifting. Canada’s transportation landscape has changed dramatically since the TSB was established. Public expectation for clear, easily accessible safety information has grown. Technology has advanced at an unprecedented pace, making our investigations more complex, and emerging fields are appearing on our radar more frequently.

With these advancements come new risks, greater potential for accidents, vast amounts of data requiring deeper analysis and responsibilities that didn't exist when the CTAISB Act was introduced. All of this makes our role more critical than ever.

The TSB is lean and efficient, with just 233 employees and a total budget of approximately $40 million. We currently fulfill our mandate effectively, but we operate with very limited flexibility. This means we can remain agile under normal circumstances, but we are operating with a thin margin.

It is essential to have the capacity to keep pace with rapid innovation, emerging risks and the growing expertise required to address them.

The TSB will continue to fulfill its mandate with independence, professionalism and a deep commitment to public safety. We are proud of the work we've accomplished, the trust Canadians place in us and the TSB's standing as a world-recognized organization and respected international partner.

As transportation evolves and new challenges emerge, we must ensure that the TSB remains ready and resilient so we can continue to protect the safety of all Canadians today and into the future.

Thank you.

We are prepared to answer your questions.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

Thanks very much.

We'll start with Mr. Patzer for six minutes, please.

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for joining us today. I've looked forward to this meeting.

I've always been very intrigued by the Titan submersible, so I look forward to reading the report when that one is finished. It's something that drew national and international media attention for sure. I don't want to ask you any questions specific to that one, but I do have a few questions on short-line railways.

I have quite a few short lines that operate in my riding, and I asked a couple of them separately about issues that were impacting them that would be relevant to this meeting. One thing they both came up with unprompted was the issue around the TSB Watchlist and how short-line rails are viewed and treated the same as the class I railways. Given that the short lines operate at slower speeds and quite often with significantly shorter and smaller trains, I wonder if there is any way for Transport Canada or for you guys to acknowledge the difference between the short lines and the class I railways.

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board

Yoan Marier

In the case of rail investigations, the vast majority of the investigations we conduct involve, as you mentioned, the class I railways. The short lines are a very small proportion of the investigative work that we do. However, when we develop the TSB Watchlist, the only rail-specific issue that is currently on it is the issue of crews not following signal indications. We look at the overall risk. We've identified this risk for the rail sector, so we've decided not to exclude short lines and just really point to the overall risk. When we take another look at the watch list in the near future, it could be something to think about for sure.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

It may be something to consider generally, talking about the public safety issues that impact class I. It definitely has an impact on the short-line guys, and sometimes it makes it a little bit harder and more onerous for them to do their job, because they don't operate at the same capacity. Also, they are reinvesting, as a percentage, significantly more back into the track to make sure they have a high-quality track to operate on. Even at that, they are still operating at lesser speeds.

When you work on the TSB Watchlist recommendations, do you take into consideration trying to avoid any unintended consequences or perhaps over-regulation? I guess it's finding the right balance. Obviously, regulation is required, but how do we find the right balance of not being too onerous with our regulations? What does it look like for you?

4:40 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board

Yoan Marier

It's tricky work, for sure, to find the right balance, as you mentioned.

The watch list is really the key safety issue that needs to be addressed to make Canada's transportation system even safer. It is a combination of recommendations that we have issued throughout the years, data from our investigations and feedback we receive when we have discussions with industry-scale stakeholders. We collect all of that, and then we identify the key issues.

When we developed the watch list, we really tried to strike the right language to identify the issues without sounding too alarmist, because our goal is really to make these issues actionable. We want them to be actioned in the future so that change can be advanced, and for that, we have to strike the right balance.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jeremy Patzer Conservative Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK

You mentioned in your opening remarks the lean and efficient nature of your department and how you operate. Thank you very much for being efficient with taxpayers' dollars.

When it comes to the comprehensive expenditure review, is there any risk of your department's having funding cut or maybe some positions lost due to the CER?