Government Operations Committee on March 10th, 2026

[Toufic El-Daher]

I'm not sure. Earlier, I mentioned that people at the bureau can process 65% of cases.

To be honest with you, I tried to contact the bureau of pensions advocates to ask for help in preparation for today's meeting. I was given the figure of $9.5 million, but the people at the bureau told me they would provide more answers only at the committee's request. Unfortunately, they categorically refused to answer my other questions, so I would call on the committee to ask them to provide the answers.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

It's always like that. We have spent hours with veterans during our studies, and we heard about the collateral damage from the lack of services and inequalities.

I have a bit of time, so I'd like to pick up on that. I have so many questions for you.

How come the Canadian Armed Forces and the RCMP are exempt from the 15% reduction target, but Veterans Affairs Canada isn't?

What message does that send?

I'm speaking as a Bloc member who stands up for veterans from coast to coast.

[Toufic El-Daher]

We don't understand it, even though we've met with our employer. We were certain that we would not be affected by the cuts, and they're trying to tell us that we're not. That's what happened earlier when your colleague tried to tell us that there are no cuts at Veterans Affairs Canada, but the reality is quite different. Unfortunately, we are affected by these cuts.

We have clients from the Canadian Armed Forces and the RCMP and their families. Why is the government cutting funding while wanting to continue serving them, despite all the hiring happening right now? The number of clients will go up, but we won't have enough employees to meet the demand.

What message is being sent? Unfortunately, I can't answer that. It's very sad.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Patzer, go ahead please.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Thank you very much for being here today. I appreciate your taking the time.

I am curious to know about your staff. Are they all in one location, or is it a situation where there could be cuts from areas across the country that would impact service delivery within your workforce there?

Canada is a big country. If people are relying on your service, are the rural and remote regions going to be even more disproportionately impacted by cuts?

[Toufic El-Daher]

The cuts affect the whole country, and the bureau of pensions advocates in Edmonton in particular, where a lot of employees are going to lose their jobs.

They affect all our offices. When a veteran wants to get in touch with the bureau of pensions advocates, they call offices wherever services are available. All veterans will pay the price because wait times will affect everyone.

Unfortunately, this will have a knock-on effect on all veterans across the country and all bureau of pensions advocates offices.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

You've talked about a percentage of workforce reduction. Do you know the actual number of employees that will be reduced?

[Toufic El-Daher]

The number is 72 employees represented by the Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees and 24 lawyers represented by the Association of Justice Counsel. Contracts for 96 employees will therefore not be renewed, because the temporary three-year budget has not been extended.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Wow.

Okay. I'll turn the rest of my time over to my colleague.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I love the idea that they have this dashboard where we can keep track of who's coming, who's going and where the numbers are, but I understand that Veterans Affairs is one of the only departments missing from that dashboard to let us know.

The government says they haven't finalized their plans yet. Veterans who depend on this department for their benefits, case management and appeal support deserve to know what services are going to be reduced or eliminated. If the department hasn't finalized what it's cutting, how can they assure veterans their services are safe?

[Toufic El-Daher]

We're asking the same thing. Unfortunately, the department has not discussed any plan with us. We have been told that veterans are not affected, and that they just want to streamline and modernize the system. Well, I'm sorry, but that's not true. As I said, I've been with Veterans Affairs Canada for 23 years, and I've seen such things before. Inevitably, veterans will pay the price.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

It strikes me when they say that they found $1.1 billion in savings but they're going to add $185 million in four years that will be new spending. I find that very strange. How can you do both at the same time?

Do they just do the $185 million to make it look like they're not taking all the money away from the service that's needed?

[Toufic El-Daher]

We asked the same question. We were told that the $185 million over four years was intended to stabilize disability benefits. However, as I said, we don't have any documentation with a clear explanation on how this will play out on the ground and how this money will be invested.

We have heard that the cannabis program costs $4 billion. In reality, it doesn't cost $4 billion, but we've been told that from an actuarial point of view, it's $4 billion over a life expectancy of 30 years.

We know that in reality, the cannabis program costs around $245 million a year. However, we were told that this is spread out over 30 years from an actuarial standpoint.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

It sounded very interesting that the Liberals are fine with long lines that are masquerading as services, which sounds very much like our health care. If you're in a line to get services, is that actually getting services or is that making your life much more difficult as a veteran?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Absolutely.

I'm very concerned because the waiting list will be even longer, Mrs. Jansen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

We'll finish with Ms. Khalid, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just to be clear, health services are provided by provinces and not the federal government. I know the member across the way is laughing, but misinformation matters when we're talking to our constituents and working with them to try to resolve issues.

Thank you, sir, for being here today.

I want to go back a bit. The comprehensive expenditure review, which was introduced in budget 2025, aims to reduce government operating costs, improve efficiency and reallocate funds toward high-priority investments like defence and economic growth. This initiative targets $60 billion in savings and revenues over five years, with an annual reduction goal of $13 billion by 2028-29.

I think you have faced a lot of government challenges and reductions in costs in the past. The last we saw was in 2013-14, when Stephen Harper cut a lot of services for Veterans Affairs, even though that is very different from what our new Liberal government is trying to do. Can you walk us through how those cuts impacted you and veterans across the country, whether it was through services or otherwise?

[Toufic El-Daher]

I can only tell you that I'm not here to play politics. I'm here to speak about Veterans Affairs Canada and the future. I don't look in the rearview mirror.

Earlier, you said there were no budget cuts at the Canadian Armed Forces or the RCMP, but those are our clients. What you say doesn't apply to Veterans Affairs Canada. You're cutting services that veterans are entitled to. Veterans have a right to access justice because they fought for us.

Essentially, we're asking for $9.5 million to stabilize what is happening now at the bureau of pensions advocates. I'm thinking about the future. I'm thinking about tomorrow.

Turning to what you said about health care services, it's true that this is a provincial jurisdiction, but remember, veterans also have access to health care paid by Veterans Affairs Canada, so there will be consequences. I understand your point about provinces, but that is totally different.

Some health care programs are paid by Veterans Affairs Canada, and unfortunately, these programs are going to be adversely affected by the budget cuts.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you, sir.

I'm not trying to play any politics; I'm just trying to understand what your past experience has been with the Stephen Harper cuts. I understand that they are very different from what is being proposed here. These are not cuts in staffing or cuts in centres. These are cuts to try to find efficiencies—for example, moving to a digital space to make sure that the services provided are more accessible to and more efficient for the people who need those services. Thank you for those comments.

You're aware of the cannabis program, yes?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Yes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

There are types of products, daily per-gram limits, eligibility...other than the reimbursement rate changing from $8.50 per gram to six dollars per gram. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and how that impacts veterans?

[Toufic El-Daher]

I can't speak to that, unfortunately, because the department hasn't shared all of those details. They only told us how the current budget will be met by not cutting indeterminate positions thanks to a modernization of the cannabis program. However, I can't provide any details, because unfortunately, the department has not sent me the documentation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you. That is your time.

Colleagues, we do have enough time for another round. We'll do three minutes, three minutes, three minutes and then finish with two minutes for the Bloc.

Mr. Richards, please go ahead for three minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Let me follow up on these cuts. I want to talk about this as well.

You've mentioned already your concerns about what things are going to look like. This idea that the cannabis program is going to amount to $4 billion, even if it's spread over 30 years, is ludicrous. Nobody believes it.

We're hearing stories of veterans who are getting letters demanding, in some cases, over $100,000 in repayments because of mistakes that were made over the years. We're hearing about things that are intended to take away money that was provided for veterans in long-term care, pensions for RCMP veterans.... We're hearing a lot of things.

What this all amounts to is that veterans are left sitting here with all kinds of questions—as it seems you are as well—about what these cuts are going to be. It's fairly clear that there are going to be service cuts. How that couldn't be the case is impossible to believe.

Have you had any indication from the department, from the minister or from any of the senior officials as to what these cuts are going to entail?