Government Operations Committee on March 10th, 2026

[Toufic El-Daher]

Unfortunately, Mr. Richards, we've not had any information on that from the department. We were told that the cannabis program means that Veterans Affairs Canada would not have a workforce adjustment for now. However, we don't know what will happen next year.

I'm also wondering how they came up with $4 billion. I understand it's an actuarial number spread over 30 years. That said, I'm wondering what surprise lies in store for next year or the year after.

We've not had any calls from senior management, but I'm very open. I have excellent relations with senior management, but the thing is—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

I apologize for interrupting you, but I want to make sure that we're clear on one thing.

Do you believe the idea that there will not be any effect on services to veterans and that there won't be any staffing cuts, especially when we've already heard that the BPA is being cut by almost half? Do you think there's any possibility that there won't be an effect on services to veterans?

[Toufic El-Daher]

No. There will be effects. I can say that with absolute certainty. There will be immediate effects on veterans. We know that already, because in April, the bureau of pensions advocates cancelled plans for 300 hearings because the workforce was cut by 44%.

These cuts mean that veterans will have to wait a few more months to appear before the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. We hear that there won't be any cuts and that veterans will have the same services as before. Well, I'm sorry, but that's not the reality.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

That makes it you and everybody else, except for a handful of people who sit on the other side of the House of Commons, who know that is the case.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

We'll go back to Ms. Khalid for three minutes, and I'll finish with Madame Gaudreau for two minutes.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

It's interesting that the member opposite, who actually physically voted against support for veterans in the past, when he was in government, is now calling this out in his feigned.... Anyway, we won't go there.

I want to go back to the funding for the Bureau of Pensions Advocates in 2022. We realized that it was time sensitive, and there was a very specific reason for it being allotted. At that time, it was supposed to sunset in March 2026, so at the end of this month.

Can you walk us through whether you need this funding to continue? What was this funding used for in the past?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Thank you very much, Ms. Khalid.

You have to understand that I spoke with senior management at the bureau of pensions advocates. Senior management is calling for stable, ongoing funding. Veterans' needs are not temporary. They are ongoing. I represent the union and its members. Senior management made this request.

Ms. Khalid, I do understand that, as you noted, this was temporary funding for three years. We know that. However, 52,000 cases will have to be processed, a backlog of 27,000 cases plus 25,000 cases for this year.

We are therefore calling for the contracts of the 96 employees to be extended for another year, and then, if the department wants to review how the disability benefits program operates, we'll work together the first year to see how it can be modernized. Additionally, the bureau of pensions advocates should be given ongoing, stable funding. It can't keep working on a temporary basis, for two to three years at a time. This creates uncertainty for everyone, including veterans.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I know I don't have a lot of time. In closing, what is the biggest issue that you hear about from your members with respect to Veterans Affairs providing services? Also, what is your role in providing service to veterans?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Right now, we're having a lot of conversations around cuts at the bureau of pensions advocates. However, there are also significant challenges with the privatization of our services. The contract awarded to Lifemark comes to mind.

I hope I'll be invited to appear before the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs to provide an update on that, because that's not going well either. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been invested. Taxpayers are footing the bill, and they're not getting the results they expected.

That's concerning. Our members want to help veterans, but unfortunately, they don't have the resources to do so effectively. It's sad, but that's still the reality we're living with.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much for your time today.

[Toufic El-Daher]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Madame Gaudreau.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

We've been talking about Lifemark at the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. We're doing a study on precisely that.

Thank you, Mr. El‑Daher, for raising that point. The audience at the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs is quite impressive. There's also a flood of feedback from veterans, who appreciate the fact that you are there to shine a light on the reality.

As you've told us, nearly 300 cases will not be heard in April. Some veterans are tuning in right now. Can we put ourselves in their shoes for a couple of seconds and say that we're proud of that? People will say that they didn't choose that. It takes will. I urge you to have a proper meeting to hear the real reasons. There might be a hidden plan somewhere that no one knows about, but for goodness' sake, bring it out.

Again, does this undermine people's confidence in our institutions?

[Toufic El-Daher]

I'd like to hope not, but the truth is, it does.

Keep in mind that the employees are not to blame. No one can blame all the people fighting for our veterans. It's really a structural issue, from higher up.

Indeed, it does undermine confidence, unfortunately, but we are doing everything we can to help our veterans. I'm here today because of them.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. El‑Daher, for conveying your message so eloquently.

Keep pushing for the $9.5 million funding. Don't give up. We'll come back to this another time.

Thank you very much for joining us.

[Toufic El-Daher]

Thank you.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. El-Daher, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. You're a wonderful witness, and I appreciate all the feedback you've provided us with today.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for a couple of moments to bring in our next set of witnesses.

Mr. El-Daher, thank you again. Hopefully, we'll see you back with us, or perhaps with Veterans Affairs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We are back in session. Thank you, everyone, for your patience.

We welcome back, again, our friends from the Treasury Board, Mr. Trudel, Mr. Matthews and Ms. Boudreau.

I understand you have an opening statement, Mr. Matthews. Please go ahead. The floor is yours.

[Bill Matthews, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With me today are Annie Boudreau, comptroller general of Canada; and Francis Trudel, associate chief human resources officer.

The comprehensive expenditure review was launched on July 7, 2025. The proposed cuts were to total up to 15% of each organization's review base, which reflected the main estimates for 2025-26.

Departments and their organizations were instructed to target programs and activities that were underperforming, not core to the federal mandate, overlapped with other programs or were not aligned with government priorities.

Savings were also to include operational efficiencies.

The comprehensive expenditure review applied to federally appropriated organizations, including Crown corporations, with certain exceptions, such as agents of Parliament.

There was a lower annual savings target of 2% set for certain organizations, such as the Department of National Defence, the RCMP and the CBSA, due to their mandates and recent investments.

In total, 102 organizations submitted savings proposals. These proposals were reviewed to ensure they didn't compromise the ability of the government to service Canadians or its legal obligations, for example, in respect to official languages. Proposals were also reviewed to avoid negative impacts to the health, safety and national security of Canadians.

Budget 2025, tabled last November, included detailed information on planned reductions by organization. The budget also presented a plan to return the size of the public service to a more sustainable level: from about 368,000 employees in 2024 to approximately 330,000 employees in 2029. This includes a reduction of approximately 16,000 resulting directly from the comprehensive expenditure review, continuing a trend of public service population decrease over the past several years.

Workforce reductions are being managed through attrition and voluntary departures wherever possible.

The proposed early retirement incentive program seeks to support this objective by offering public servants the opportunity to voluntarily leave the public service.

Budget 2025 contained a 40-page annex on planned savings, and additional details will be provided in the organizations' departmental plans, which will be tabled shortly.

Lastly, organizations responded to the Parliamentary Budget Officer's requests for information on savings and impacts on services.

We will continue to share more information as it becomes available.

Very briefly, Mr. Chair, I would like to speak about the comprehensive expenditure review as it applies to the Treasury Board Secretariat as a department.

The Treasury Board Secretariat's budget will be reduced by $58 million, or about 15%, annually by 2028-29. Our workforce at TBS will be reduced by about 300 executive and non-executive positions across all sectors. We are minimizing involuntary departures by leveraging attrition, such as retirements, as much as possible to achieve these outcomes.

As noted earlier, the early retirement incentive program may allow us to further reduce involuntary departures, should it be approved by Parliament.

This concludes my remarks. My colleagues and I look forward to responding to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Matthews.

Mrs. Kusie, welcome back to OGGO. The floor is yours.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you. It's great to be here. I appreciate that.

Has the Treasury Board provided specific direction to departments on how they will achieve the comprehensive expenditure review goals so it's not end-loaded and so that they have an idea or a guideline as to how to work towards achieving these objectives?

[Bill Matthews]

There were criteria given to each department, and the departments developed the proposals, which were signed off on by their ministers. Their targets were basically to start off more slowly in 2026-27 with 7.5% of their targets, and then 10% the next year and 15% in year three.

The criteria we asked departments to apply were as follows: Is it core federal mandate? Does it duplicate or overlap with other programs or responsibilities of provinces? Is it misaligned with government priorities? Are the programs achieving their outcomes?

We also asked them to ensure there was no impact on service delivery, health, safety or legal obligations.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Okay.

How will you be tracking the implementation and progress made on the CER by departments?

[Bill Matthews]

The easiest thing to do there is to remove the money from the estimates. As you all know, at this committee especially—