Evidence of meeting #34 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cuts.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Okay. Were you aware that a dog actually overdosed on narcotics, as I was told? Is that accurate?
Second National Vice-President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
I can't speak to that. I'm not aware of that.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Okay. That's just what I was told.
What percentage of job cuts are management versus the front line for CSC?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
That's a good question. We can talk about FTEs. On our side, we're talking about more than 100 correctional officers whom we are going to lose—FTEs—at the end of this exercise. It's massive. We talk about security. We talk about mobile patrol and SIU services. It's a lot. It's a lot of the CXs who are going to be affected with those—
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
How many jobs are being eliminated from regional headquarters? Do you have any idea?
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
As in, we haven't been told or zero...or both?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
We don't know the answer.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Okay. I'll assume zero if you haven't been told.
How about the national headquarters? How many jobs were set to be cut from NHQ?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
That's a good question. They didn't inform—
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Well, I think they didn't inform because it's zero.
Would it be fair to say that Correctional Service Canada is a bureaucracy at the national headquarters and the regional headquarters levels?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
It's a huge organization. At the end of the day, CSC has RHQs and NHQ. There are a lot of people working there. It's pretty hard for us to comment on how many people are working here in Ottawa or even in the region.
Our core business, as correctional officers, is that we're dealing with stuff inside the institutions. It's pretty hard for me to say, yes, there are a lot of people or enough or too much. I cannot comment on this.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Okay.
In terms of the safety and security of officers, I've been to a number of institutions. I worked for federal corrections. This is a vulnerability in part because of small things, like the unwillingness of the CSC to supply razor blades that disintegrate. I think you probably know what I'm talking about. There are razor blades out there that if you go to use them as a weapon, they will disintegrate. CSC doesn't supply those.
I know that officer safety is a big issue, and now, when it comes to drones and detection technology, CSC is cutting those types of things to intercept contraband. Will that ultimately make officers more safe or less safe?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
Absolutely it will make officers less safe. We're having drones on a daily basis across our institutions. Coast to coast, we're having assaults on a daily basis. Correctional officers have been assaulted. There's not a single day that I'm not receiving a phone call from the monitoring centre telling me, “Fred, there's a an officer who has been assaulted in Kent”, or “There's an officer who has been assaulted in Donnacona”. In the last eight months, we had three murders in Donnacona.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
I'm going to just speak. Normally, I would like to ask questions, but I have one minute left.
I will say this. Being a correctional officer is one of the most difficult occupations. It's one of the bravest occupations. The fact that you have to go to jail and worry about being stabbed by contraband that could be detected by drone and is not—you have to live through that—and that you are putting your lives on the line for a salary that is substantially lower than other peace officers', to me, is repugnant. The fact is that the government is cutting those things that would help protect you, and it is not cutting an ounce of bureaucracy. The government should be ashamed.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
I apologize, Mr. Caputo. I reduced your time by one minute. You have one more minute.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
I just ended so well.
Do you have anything to say to that?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
It's a tough job. You're right. Nobody decides as a child to become a correctional officer. It's a passion. We are working near each community across Canada, and it's a tough job. You're right. It's not an easy one.
For sure, when the CSC and the government tell us they're cutting $132.2 million, it makes us afraid. It's worrying.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
It used to be that people who assault went to higher security or the SHU, the special handling unit. Is that the case anymore?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
It is, but it's very complicated to get to the SHU, at the end of the day.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
Sometimes, we have a modified segregation unit, the SIU, which an inmate can stay in for only 60 days, but what does the CSC do? It just transfers them to another jail. It does that by charter plane, which costs millions per year. Is that right?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
Absolutely. There's probably an economy of cost to do that.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
The CSC is literally transferring inmates from jail to jail, because an inmate can stay in the SIU for only up to 60 days. Rather than reintegrate them by law, it will literally just put them in a new jail and say, “Look. We took them out of the SIU.” They go from province to province and region to region on charter aircraft. Is that accurate?
National President, Union of Canadian Correctional Officers
In some cases, yes. We need to keep that tool. It's very important, because we need to keep “segregation”. It's the same thing in the community. If you don't have a police station, you'll be in danger.
Conservative
Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC
What a colossal waste of money to transfer inmates by charter aircraft from jail to jail just to comply with unworkable regulations.