Government Operations Committee on April 14th, 2026

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Thank you very much, everyone, for being here today.

Ms. DeSousa, I'll start with you. Can you confirm for the committee that PSAC represents the workers at the border?

[Sharon DeSousa]

That is correct. We do.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

You mentioned in your opening remarks the 26,000 cuts to the public service. I'm wondering if you can elaborate a little on the impacts that is having for CBSA.

[Sharon DeSousa]

Right now, I can tell you that we've received information that roughly 447 workers at Canada Border Services Agency have received workforce adjustment notification. What that translates to, we don't know. The government has the next three years to determine if there's further notification coming.

Are there impacts? Yes, there are. They're short-staffed already. When we're looking at the feeder groups to staff up officers, there's competition with RCMP and local police as well. We know that the government has made a commitment to staff up by 1,000 officers. If you're in dire need of officers, why are you providing workforce adjustment notification? It just doesn't make sense. It concerns me because they're already trained. They've already gone through the rigorous training at Rigaud. Anyone who has gone through it knows that it's one small infraction and you're kicked out; you don't move forward. These are trained officers. These are people who are trained in administration and in support services. Many of them report to the national capital region.

My concern is this: What are we really doing here? Are we looking at CBSA in an overall capacity? Are we looking at the future and what's required to support it, or are we just doing an elimination exercise here? That's how I really feel. That's been happening with all the departments. The lack of review of the programs themselves and of the impacts to the Canadian public, to the stakeholders who depend on it, concerns me greatly. I feel that this is just an across-the-top cutting exercise: Let things fall where they may.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

I've been hearing concerns from a lot of the communities I represent that there will be an impact to the hours of operation at the border crossings. Do you share that same concern? Are you hearing concerns about that as well from the folks you represent?

[Sharon DeSousa]

I am, without a doubt. It seems as though we've become a tourism port, for lack of a better way to put it. I've never known a port that can be open only during a specific period of time. It just doesn't make sense to me. A port is a point of security. The threat doesn't end. It doesn't work nine to five. I'm a little bit concerned about the decision-making that has been done.

I'm also concerned about the smaller rural communities that depend on that port for businesses to move products back and forth with the United States. What kind of consultation has been done in those rural communities? I don't think there has been anything.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

I can tell you, from the mayors and councillors and people I talk to on a regular basis, that there's been no consultation at all done with them.

Are you concerned too about having physically present officers replaced with technology? Are you concerned about that?

[Sharon DeSousa]

Very much. AI cannot replace a human being and the work that our members do. They're highly trained. There are things that AI will not pick up on. In fact, I can tell you that in some cases, some ports use students. There's a bridging program where students are used in certain capacities. Students aren't trained the same way border services officers are trained. The level of training is very minute, yet they're used. To me, that's a health and safety risk for that young person. It's also an impact on our security.

There is a shortage of staff, but the answer is not AI. The answer is staffing up appropriately. If we're serious about being defenders of our country, if we're serious about doing this, then we need to invest in the people who do it.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Have they been consulted about AI? Have you been consulted about the government's expansion of AI at ports?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Please give a brief answer.

[Sharon DeSousa]

The brief answer is yes and no. It depends on the department. It depends on the technology, but I would say that there hasn't been meaningful consultation.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Ms. Rochefort, go ahead please.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you very much.

I understand that Correctional Service Canada is one of the government's largest agencies. Would that be correct? It operates 43 institutions nationwide. It employs a staff of approximately 19,000. What percentage of that number would be members of your union, the Union of Canadian Correctional Officers?

[Frédérick Lebeau]

I'm not very good at math, but let's say there are 7,500 correctional officers in the amount that you just said.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I noted that the reduction in full-time staff, the FTEs, is approximately 850 FTEs through the comprehensive expenditure review. What percentage of that number would be members of your union?

[Frédérick Lebeau]

It's most likely near 400 FTEs or in that range.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I noted a budget of about $3.8 billion for the agency. I think you or someone mentioned that through the comprehensive expenditure review, we're looking at savings of approximately $132 million. Would that be correct?

[Frédérick Lebeau]

Yes, the savings that CSC told us in the government was $132.2 million in the last budget. You're right.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Then basically, when you read the plan for Correctional Service Canada with respect to how they plan to reorganize themselves, they talk specifically about focusing on critical priorities and flattening the organizational structures. They talk about aligning with modern practices and an overall reduction of administrative burdens. They also say that they're going to reorganize the office footprint and regional arrangements to improve efficiency, consistency and accountability.

From my perspective, I look at this as being a very large government department, and I understand that it's very important and dangerous work, as you've described. Nonetheless, I feel that there's a plan here that seems to make sense. To me, it's about enabling the government, in this instance, and Correctional Service Canada to spend less so it can invest more.

I heard you clearly say, Mr. Lebeau, that investment is required in digital tools and in infrastructure. As I look at this plan, I see that is what they're trying to achieve, so this is a good plan in a certain sense. I would be interested in your views about what is good about this plan—not what is wrong with the plan.

[Frédérick Lebeau]

That's a good question. To be honest, the plan on paper seems to be not that bad. You're right. We're saving Canadians money. However, at the end of the day, it's our safety and our security. When you reduce FTEs in SIUs or in mobile patrols, when you attack the dynamic security—the active security inside all of our institutions—that plan doesn't make sense at all. We're combatting drones, crimes, firearms and a ton of things inside our institutions. We need to make sure that the money goes to the right place.

I'm not against flattening the region, improving how people are working here in Ottawa or in the region, not at all. However, at very least, we need to improve all of our institutions across the country, for sure.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Then basically, to some extent, it's about shifting resources from administrative burdens to ensuring that frontline service providers are able to do their jobs. Do you see the plan in any way supporting that direction?

[Frédérick Lebeau]

We were briefed by CSC on January 26, and we still need to work with CSC to flatten those angles, because we don't know what the outcome will be and how it will be managed. It's important to know how CSC will land on certain files.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Quickly, I'd like to touch on the workforce adjustments taking place.

Has there been any specific support mentioned to help your members navigate this transition?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize, but give a very brief answer, please.