Evidence of meeting #37 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fintrac.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I'd like us to be able to break down the costs, ultimately, in relation to the actual cost.
What's less expensive? Is it using external consultants?
We can discuss our failures. It's essential in the short term because internal expertise is not accessible or available.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Shared Services Canada
No two situations are alike. We have about 35 departments. Some are very up to date or forward thinking, while others are outdated. It’s a mix of systems, and we deal with that every day. It’s not easy.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
I served on the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics from 2009 to 2021. We had, in fact, discussed the transition, privacy management and all that. It seems, therefore, that we did not enact sufficient legislation or that we did not do so quickly enough.
Among others, we met with representatives from certain countries, including Estonia. You might say that’s to be expected, since that country was just beginning to roll out digital services.
How is it that we are still so far behind in 2026?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Shared Services Canada
Once again, it depends on the services in place. Some are up to date. We also need to take into account the fact that smaller countries may have fewer options than larger ones.
We need to be agile and continue to improve our processes so we can move faster. We move forward as the situation evolves.
Bloc
Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC
If urgent legislative action is needed, we need to be told so that we can take action. That's our role. That said, we were delayed for several reasons: prorogation, the elections and everything else.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Hammond, your department is pretty important. Public Services and Procurement Canada is kind of like the engine room of the government. It buys goods for departments, manages federal buildings and major assets, runs pay and pension systems for public servants, and does a lot more.
Looking at your performance numbers, I see that you're missing the mark on a number of things. The simplest way that I can think of to explain this is that you're like a general contractor hired to run an entire home—not just one job but everything: the renovations, the bills, the maintenance, and even making sure that everyone in the household gets paid properly. Right now, that contractor is already missing deadlines, going over budget and not always delivering what was promised. In fact, by your own numbers, only about 6.5 out of 10 projects are being awarded on time, for example.
Someone with a contractor who gets only two out of three jobs done on time wouldn't automatically think that the best way to get better results is to lay people off.
If you can cut hundreds of millions of dollars without reducing service, why were these efficiencies not implemented earlier?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Where this comes from is that we now have access to additional new technology that we may not have had access to before.
I talked a bit about some of the AI work that we're doing. That is one area where we are focusing some attention. That's helping us to achieve some efficiencies, particularly in our back office functions.
We're also looking at streamlining and delayering at the management level in order to have a slightly flatter organization and expand responsibilities at the executive level over our staff.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
How did the government, after years of underperformance and massive spending, suddenly discover that you could supposedly do that same work for so much less?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
This is really about transforming the way we do our business.
We were given targets, and we were asked to go back and look at them. We looked at those areas that were of lower priority, and we looked to reduce there. I mentioned one, the Canadian General Standards Board. It's an area that we have been operating for a number of years within PSPC, but a number of other organizations are doing very similar work across the federal system, so we made the decision to discontinue that function within PSPC and achieve some savings.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Why would it have taken so long? If you guys are double-doing things, why did it take so long to find those savings?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
This is an opportunity for us to really look closely at our finances and determine areas of lower priority. This exercise gave us that opportunity to really focus our attention on that piece.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Then you're not regularly looking at that sort of thing, at how you can save money. Is that happening only suddenly, now, because you were told you had to look for savings?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We continually look at ways to reallocate our budget within the department in order to focus on the highest-priority areas for Canadians. We do that process on an annual basis. When we go through our budget-setting exercise within the department, we'll look at the areas that need the most attention.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Why did Canadians have to live with missed targets and higher deficit spending, causing increased inflation, only now to be told that the department can suddenly do the same work for less, that you're suddenly not going to be doubling up on things?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We take our fiscal stewardship responsibilities as a department very seriously. We look to find savings where we can and reallocate them to the highest-priority areas.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
This just happened in the past year, then, or has it been going on for quite some time?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
This has been going on for some time.
Again, as I mentioned, we hadn't necessarily had access to new, modern technology and tools that will enable us to become more efficient as we move forward.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
How much is it going to cost us to reduce these extra employees?
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We are going through the process of our reductions. We talked a lot about achieving targets through attrition, and we're doing as much as we can through that. We have achieved some of our savings through attrition.
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We have estimated some of our cost. However, it is still based very much on assumptions at this point, because we're still waiting for the outcome of things like the early retirement incentive, the voluntary departure program and other attrition that we expect over the next several months.
Conservative
Chief Financial Officer, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm sorry. I don't have that specifically in front of me, but I'd be happy to provide that number in writing.
Conservative
Tamara Jansen Conservative Cloverdale—Langley City, BC
Okay.
This is my last question. I don't have a lot of time.
Why should Canadians trust that service levels won't slip further, when you're already failing to meet the goals that were set for you?
