Government Operations Committee on April 23rd, 2026

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

To clarify, it had already been identified that the fleet needed to be reduced and that this was going to be under way.

Was it the comprehensive expenditure review that sped along the process?

[Jonathan Moor]

I would say that it's a combination of two things.

To be frank, we've also seen an additional amount of money coming in: $2.3 billion. This allows us to invest in new capabilities, which will allow us to look at some of the older capabilities and say, “This is no longer appropriate. We'll remove it.” The priority, therefore, is on the new rather than the old.

The comprehensive expenditure review happened at the same time as we announced the Kingston class.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you.

In your plan to modernize governance practices and internal services, you mentioned the goal of reducing administrative burdens, yet you also do not expect to have any reductions in FTE positions.

Can you explain that? Are there no middle managers or duplicative administrators whose resources could be used elsewhere?

[Jonathan Moor]

I'll kick it off, and maybe Renée could come in as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We have only about 20 seconds, so please be brief, Mr. Moor.

[Jonathan Moor]

I'm sorry, Chair.

Very quickly, one example is digital services. We are trying to modernize the digital services. We believe this will reduce our costs by around $65 million, or 650 staff. However, those staff will be redirected to other priorities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

Ms. Rochefort.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Monsieur Blanchette, I am from the riding of Nipissing—Timiskaming. We are the very proud home of the Canadian anti-fraud centre.

I am simply wondering if you can describe how they fit into the overall system or framework of fighting fraud and crime?

[Philippe Blanchette]

The regime involves multiple partners and stakeholders. We have disclosure recipients. We have a regulated entity we work with for public partnerships. It involves multiple partnerships. They would be contributing. We do lots of consultation. We do lots of partnerships in terms of sharing trends and sharing what each of those partners is seeing on the ground. This also helps us inform our national risk assessment as we determine what intelligence products we could provide in the public space, as well as what supervisory products we could provide to regulated entities.

That's how we work together, in terms of sharing information, informing on trends and developing products.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I would be happy to share that with them.

Pardon me, Mr. Reade.

[Greg Reade, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Very quickly, I want to make note of the recent consultation on the anti-fraud strategy, which is just concluding today, actually.

Regarding the financial sector more broadly but also the telecommunications sector and digital platforms, the government is thinking about anti-fraud measures that could be taken up from a consumer-focused perspective. That organization, in particular, would be important with respect to that initiative.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you for those comments. I will share this with them. I know they're very proud of the work they do, and they speak out on it.

If it's okay, Mr. Reade, I would simply like to ask a question from a Finance perspective.

I am a new MP. For me, it's about understanding where we go from here with the comprehensive expenditure review process. What would the sequence be? What would the next phase be in that particular process?

[Greg Reade]

It's a great question.

I'll preface this by noting that my role in the financial sector branch is focused on somewhat of a different area.

That said, I think Finance, as a whole, has made a great effort to take a role in the overall review process. The objective, as was demonstrated in this specific case, was to look at modernization, duplication, overlap and where we can find efficiencies. It ramps up over three years, generally. Now it's about implementation. It's about focusing on the results and finding those savings.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I can say that I've been very impressed with all the presentations that have come before this committee.

As well, maybe I'll ask a second question in that line. What would be the responsibilities going forward now between the finance department and Treasury Board in terms of this next phase?

[Greg Reade]

I think that goes along the lines of implementation. Treasury Board and the Treasury Board Secretariat work very closely with the CFOs of the organizations on more of a day-to-day basis—or at least on a regular basis—and have a very detailed line of sight into expenditures at a more detailed level. Those are very productive working relationships, in which Finance is very closely linked, to understand implementation, reporting and results.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Through this process, I discovered as well that the finance department is not necessarily a large department. Is that a fair statement?

[Greg Reade]

That's a fair statement. Relative to many government departments, we are in fact quite small.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

A lean, mean machine.... I was reading that you've done some consolidation of functions through this CER process. You've looked at integrating policy and changing your teams, roles and responsibilities. Moving forward, how do you anticipate that working?

[Greg Reade]

You're right. There have been some organizational changes within Finance, which has been quite stable for a long time. In particular, there is the merging of two branches under one ADM and one associate assistant deputy minister. Those are big changes, but the activities within those two branches were very similar.

It's our challenge function branches that work with departments across the government in respect of requests that feed into the budget process. This is a key part of the expenditure management system, but there are synergies there in terms of how the work is done, and so far so good. I think we've found our way.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

On that note, I think my time is up.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Madame Gaudreau is next.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

I have just two questions to ask, in the two and a half minutes.

When it comes to defence spending, I have serious concerns in terms of the human cost.

What about the dilapidated housing in Bagotville and the pollutants near that town?

Is this a concern? Should any actions be taken in the near future?

[Jonathan Moor]

Absolutely, and we have funding in ONSAF—“Our North, Strong and Free”—where we received considerable billions of dollars to actually invest in our infrastructure, including in our housing. In housing, we've had some big successes in the last year and, in fact, in buying condo blocks, where we can immediately get blocks in place for people to do housing.

There's always going to be more to be done, and we have a long process around making sure we align the housing needs across all of our bases and all of our wings, including using private-public options. We are now currently looking at an option whereby we could have a private-public sector approach to housing.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I would appreciate it if you could keep us informed. Not only will this save you from having to come back, but it will also reassure us and the people listening to us, particularly veterans, who follow the committee’s hearings closely.

I have one more question. It concerns fraud. I was here in 2019. At the time, we were really assessing the legislative capacity to protect our personal information. Now, I realize that, over the past six years, very little has been done, even though some steps are being taken right now.

Since you’re on the ground, can you tell us if we have the tools needed to take action in fraud management?

[Greg Reade]

I'm happy to start.

In respect of fraud, individual consumers and liability, again I would note the anti-fraud consultation strategy. The government announced in budget 2025 that this was an important issue that multiple departments are coming together on to think through, as it is a multi-faceted issue.

There's a consultation paper, as I mentioned, that has been out. I think you'll find in there some questions that officials and government are exploring around these issues. It's whether we have the right tools and capacity to raise awareness appropriately among consumers but also to protect, to disrupt the fraud and to find mechanisms to potentially give back some of their losses to people who are subject to fraud. These are all live questions within the guards of that framework and strategy.