Government Operations Committee on April 30th, 2026

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 38 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Before we start, I'd like to welcome two new members of OGGO.

Ms. Martin, welcome to OGGO.

Mr. Danko is apparently virtual. Welcome, Mr. Danko.

We were going to choose a vice-chair today, as Ms. Khalid has moved on to the justice committee, but we will delay that until next Tuesday.

We have a different set-up today, because we have three different sessions. We're going to start with the PCO. When we're done with them, we're going to suspend very briefly to bring in our final witness on the CER study. For that, we will have shorter turns: a five-minute opening statement, and then three five-minute interventions. Then we'll suspend briefly again to welcome our new PBO and go back to a regular rotation of six-, five- and five-minute turns.

Mr. Shea, welcome back.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

[Matthew Shea, Chief Financial Officer, Privy Council Office]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Matthew Shea, and I'm the chief financial officer for the Privy Council Office.

I'm accompanied today by Louise Baird, vice-president at the Major Projects Office; Connie Rivet, our deputy chief financial officer; and Dante Fracassi, director general of human resources.

Thank you for inviting us to speak with you.

I'm pleased to be here today representing the PCO for the review of our main estimates.

PCO is committed to serving Canada and Canadians. We provide professional, non-partisan advice and support to the Prime Minister and ministers within his portfolio, as well as to the Clerk of the Privy Council, who is head of the public service of Canada.

In addition, we help to support the effective operation of cabinet on matters of national and international importance; the implementation of the government's agenda; the fostering of a high-performance and accountable public service; and the full spectrum of policy, communications, budget and legislative priorities for the Prime Minister, cabinet and cabinet committees.

Given the rapid changes happening in Canada and around the world, the Prime Minister and the clerk have asked the public service to respond with speed and efficiency. PCO continues to adapt to this environment. We pivot to new priorities when required, and we understand that how we do our work, as well as how we think about our work, need to be updated as situations evolve.

To give a brief overview of the 2026‑27 main estimates, the PCO requested $252.3 million in total to fulfill its core responsibility of serving the Prime Minister and cabinet and to support its internal services.

This is a decrease of $25.9 million from the amount sought in the 2025-26 main estimates. There are several reasons for this decrease, including the sunsetting of time-limited funding for various initiatives, such as the candidate security services related to the 2025 general election; the ending of initiatives such as clean growth, public lands and housing at PCO, transitioning out of the department's funding portfolio; and implementing the permanent reductions for the current fiscal year under the comprehensive expenditure review.

This is partially offset by an increase in authorities to support the building of the Major Projects Office, MPO, which partially offsets our financial decreases. The MPO serves as the single federal point of leadership to coordinate the regulatory process and other key elements of major, nation-building projects that are referred to the office. This investment means that PCO can manage a portfolio of active projects, even as we work to lower the net spending profile across our internal and corporate service lines.

Mr. Chair and committee members, thank you for giving us the opportunity to provide this context. We look forward to answering your questions now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Mr. Shea.

We'll start with Mrs. Block, for six minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.

I know we're here to talk about the main estimates, which include some interesting numbers. They're covering a lot of different departments.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. I can't hear the interpretation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll start from the beginning, Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Welcome here.

How many employees do you have assigned to marketing, communications and research? I'm just looking for a number.

[Matthew Shea]

I don't have that granular level of detail. Our total communications team has about 100 FTEs.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Last year, how much did you spend on external contractors or services for marketing, communications or research?

[Matthew Shea]

I will see if we have that number. I know we have the number for professional services. I'll see if we have the exact number for research.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Perhaps I could help you out. According to ATIP records, the amount spent on those services is approaching $6 million, despite your having more than 300 employees doing that same work.

Do you have an issue with these numbers I've presented?

[Matthew Shea]

I can't refer to the specific ATIP request that you have referred to, but we spend money on government.... Are you talking about government advertising or market research right now?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Marketing, communications and research.

[Matthew Shea]

We spend money on government advertising. Advertising enables the Government of Canada to communicate with Canadians about the government's priorities and policies and to provide them with information about what program services and important issues affect them.

As part of this, we, as the PCO, received funding last year of $3 million in supplementary estimates (B) and $4.5 million in supplementary estimates (C). These were related to the choose Canada advertising campaign, the Build Canada Homes campaign and the safer communities campaign, and an additional amount for choose Canada.

I don't know if that partially answers your question. I believe that probably aligns with the ATIP, depending on the timing of that particular access to information request.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

The access to information request I cited was obtained by the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, which raises concerns about spending practices within the Privy Council Office.

Why are you paying so much for external consultants when you have a huge workforce already doing this kind of work?

[Matthew Shea]

When we use external consultants for this type of work, it's to bring in capacity that we don't necessarily have and to give a level of independence.

If it's market research and polling of Canadians, as you can appreciate, we would not necessarily want government employees calling Canadians and seeking to do polls. We want to have a level of independence in the work that is done there, so we'd use external polling companies in that particular case.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

One specific example I want to question you about is a contract with EssenceMediacom that you spent $4.8 million on. According to the contract you issued, you were seeking advice from an advertising agency related to our free trade agreements.

Why are you, as the Privy Council Office, paying a marketing agency for this kind of advice?

[Matthew Shea]

While I would like to respond to all questions from this committee, we may have to return on specific contracts for specific deliverables, as I don't have information on every single contract we've done at the PCO.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

What I would ask you to do then, please, is provide in writing to this committee the advice that was requested from the company and the service that was received.

I guess I should ask if you agree to do so.

[Matthew Shea]

We always agree to provide anything the committee asks of us.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you. You nodded, but I didn't hear a response.

Has the PCO ever paid external consultants for marketing advice that has been used by the government to communicate with Canadians?

[Matthew Shea]

Again, I don't work in the communications area, so I can't say exactly what it's used for. However, yes, I believe in general that if we get advice that comes in about how to communicate with Canadians, that would be built into the communications programs that are used by the Privy Council Office or other departments.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Again, will you submit a table that includes the ads or communications you have used and a copy of the contract you had in place to obtain the advice?

[Matthew Shea]

I don't know if there's one specific contract. What I will commit to is endeavouring to provide something along those lines. I don't know if there's a specific table that tracks it to that granular level, but I will ask our communications colleagues whether one does.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

You may have mentioned this in your opening remarks, but I will admit I was reviewing some information in preparation for my questions. Did you describe the mandate of the Privy Council Office to this committee in your opening remarks?