Government Operations Committee on May 5th, 2026

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Let's not waste our resources, and let's focus on the core matter. The policy you—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Swift Current—Grasslands—Kindersley, SK]

Minister, it's my time. I gave you lots of time to respond. Thank you.

This is the spring economic update. It says “Canada Strong” on it. Today, on the Liberal Party website, it says, to donate $10, $25, $100, $250, $500 or other to the Liberal Party of Canada. “Canada Strong” is right here.

Your website, through the Treasury Board, is abundantly clear about what defines partisan messaging. It says that the Government of Canada is supposed to be free of partisan messaging, so why is it not free of partisan messaging?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

I can say that the messaging is free from being partisan and that rules are being followed. Yes, you have a misconception. You have an illusion. You're trying to make partisan claims, but I can assure you that the rules are being followed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thanks.

We'll now go to Ms. Rochefort, please, for five minutes.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Minister Ali, thank you for your work. I was impressed when you noted that the savings for 2026-27 are $9 billion. Next year it will be $10 billion, and after that, it will be $13 billion. Those are some impressive results and results of good work, so thank you for that.

I'd like to understand something. The budget identifies savings of $9 billion, as you pointed out, for 2026-27 while the main estimates show an increase in spending. Can you clarify and help us understand how these two figures align?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

That's in budget 2025. The savings of $9 billion are in 2026-27, while the main estimates show an increase in spending this year. The increase in the main estimates reflects new investment from budget 2025 to support Canadians and grow the economy. This includes affordability measures such as the Canada groceries and essentials benefit, which will support over 12 million Canadians. We're also making it easier to buy a home by reducing development charges and providing targeted GST relief for homebuyers. Canadians are also seeing relief at the pump with the temporary pause on the fuel excise tax until Labour Day. At the same time, the $9 billion in savings will be phased in over the next two years ensuring that we invest now while maintaining fiscal discipline.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

I thank you for that response.

I was wondering if maybe you might help us clarify something. I'm not sure when it was, but there was a witness at some point, and we discussed pay for performance versus bonuses. I'm wondering if we might come back to that.

I'm not sure if, Mr. Matthews, it was you when we had that discussion. I felt that we finished the discussion and that there was a lack of clarity.

Could you bring some clarity to that?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Yes. It's a really important question. For executives in the public service, there are two components to their salary. There are incentives and there is a bonus. Those incentives, performance pay, are part of their salary. There are criteria, and if they meet those criteria, achieving the goals and objectives in their performance, then they qualify to get their performance pay. That is part of their package.

The bonus part is a very small portion; about 7% received it last time. At-risk pay is a portion of executives' compensation, on average about 11%, which must be earned annually by meeting some expectations outlined in their performance agreement. I'm just giving you the right wording. This is not something on top of their salary; it is part of their job agreement. If they meet those targets, then they receive the performance pay, as well as a bonus if they're performing exceptionally.

This happens in the private sector as well. If you want to have talent, if you want to provide world-class government services, then you need to attract people. I'd like to thank them for delivering services to Canadians, and for their commitment and their dedication.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

That's important for retention as well, certainly.

I'm always impressed when we talk about consultants and the reductions that we have been making on that front. Could you share with us how you're going to be following that and tracking it and how it will be achieved, the continued reductions in consultant services?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

You have 20 seconds.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Overall, in management consultants we had a reduction last year from $900 million to $450 million. Sorry, it was from $837.8 million to $449.8 million, so it was a reduction of 46% in 2024-25.

[Pauline Rochefort, Liberal, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Impressive. Well done.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Madame Gaudreau.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, your colleague explained that the 430,000 public servants would finally, and I emphasize the word “finally”, have a reliable system called Dayforce. Not a week goes by without people coming to my office to talk about the Phoenix pay system, so it's going to take a lot for them to regain a modicum of trust. Not only are we saying “finally”, meaning the current system really wasn't working and was criticized for too long, but there was also talk of reducing the backlogs.

In fact, we don't want any more mistakes; we don't want any more detours. What commitments have you made before making a step-by-step transition to Dayforce?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Thank you very much.

That's a really important question. Although this is a PSPC question, as the employer of the public service, I hear it. I'm committed to providing proper oversight and implementing policies, as well as making sure that these services are provided in a timely manner and as effectively as we can. I think the backlog has come down, but it is still there.

I'm going to ask the deputy to highlight the current status of that.

[Bill Matthews]

Certainly. The backlog has come down, but it's still there, as the minister said.

The plan developed by Public Services and Procurement Canada aims to reduce or eliminate backlogs for the three departments that will adopt the new pay system. Those are Shared Services Canada and Public Services and Procurement Canada, Minister Lightbound's two departments, and the Nuclear Safety Commission. Those are the first three departments to adopt the new software.

We're going to learn from their experience. I think we'll be adopting the new software last year, but the planning is under way.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You mean next year.

[Bill Matthews]

Yes, I apologize. That's important.

Those are the three departments.

We call them “vanguard departments”. They're the first three adopters. PSPC has focused on eliminating the backlog for those three first, because without that backlog eliminated, adoption is not going to be as easy as it should be, so that's the focus.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to you, Minister Ali, and to your department officials.

I want to circle back to the intervention that my colleague made.

Minister, as the President of the Treasury Board, you oversee the policies that guide the non-partisan advertising that is to take place with the Government of Canada. I'm wondering if you would table with this committee the advice that you would have received, from either your deputy minister or anybody else within your office, that the rules of the Treasury Board, when it comes to non-partisan advertising, were being followed, especially after this concern was raised with the Privy Council Office last week. Can you table with us any advice that was given to you around these non-partisan advertising rules?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

I think the policy is clear. Through the chair, we sent—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Minister, I'm not asking you to talk about the rules. I'm asking you to table with this committee the advice you received, because you indicated that you had been advised that the rules were being followed, that the slogan that is—

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

What I said—

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

I'm sorry. Just a minute, please. Let me finish.