Government Operations Committee on May 5th, 2026

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you very much.

We'll start with Mrs. Kusie for six minutes.

Welcome back to OGGO, Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's always a pleasure to be here. I genuinely miss this committee, I have to say, after spending close to three years on it prior to the election. It is great to be here.

President, it is great to see you. Thank you so much for coming here today. I'm so sorry that we haven't had time to meet for coffee yet. I hope your schedule allows for it sometime soon.

Minister, you're here today to defend your government's 2026-27 main estimates, which detail over $502 billion in spending. That's $15 billion higher than your 2025-26 main estimates, and it's a stark contrast to the promise of savings that you, the Minister of Finance and the Prime Minister pledged to Canadians.

Your press release for the main estimates begins with these words: “Prudent fiscal management combines the efficient use of public funds with investments to support Canadians and drive economic growth.” I want to focus on the phrase “efficient use of public funds” specifically.

You sit in a Liberal cabinet that, in 11 years since forming government, has not once presented a surplus budget. You are a member of a Liberal government that, since 2015, has doubled the entire spend of the federal government, putting the Canadian taxpayers of not only today but also tomorrow—my children and your children—on the hook for your reckless spending.

It's reckless spending that includes a minimum of $60 million on the ArriveCAN application, $300-plus million on the PrescribeIT program and $6.6 billion on a benefits delivery program that has left tens of thousands of seniors without access to crucial benefits such as OAS. That's just to name a few.

It's reckless spending that has seen the total cost of professional and special services across the government rise to an incredible $26.6 billion in the main estimates alone.

I want to talk specifically about your comprehensive expenditure review. I've questioned you before on this plan and have noted how actions speak louder than words. This is still true today.

Since announcing the CER, the government has tabled the 2025 budget, which saw $90 billion in net new spending announced. You've tabled the supplementary estimates (C) for 2025-26, which asked for an additional $5.4 billion in spending last year, and you've tabled these main estimates, which ask for $502.8 billion in approvals.

None of this spending is less, President, and none of this has shown any progress in the CER. In these main estimates specifically, you presented a plan that sees 64 departments and agencies requesting more money in 2026 than last year. This includes your own department, which has $11 billion more spending this year over last.

Not only is the total spending on departments higher, but the actual cost of bureaucracy or personnel is up as well in the main estimates, with personnel spending up $3 billion and 62 federal organizations boosting their personnel spending from last year. This is coming despite your promise to rein in the size of the federal public service, which your government has nearly doubled in the past decade.

Then comes the spring economic update. As shadow minister for the Treasury Board, I was holding out high hopes that this update would finally outline progress made with the CER or showcase how the government is taking its responsibility of being the efficient steward of public funds seriously, as you and your superiors have promised. However, this wasn't the case. The spring update doubled the deficit that Justin Trudeau had expected for 2026-27 and added another $37 billion in net new spending to our debt.

In fact, the words “comprehensive expenditure review” appeared just four times in the 167-page document, with one of these mentions being tied to consultant spending. Even the Liberal-appointed Parliamentary Budget Officer raised flags with this yesterday in her report on the spring economic update. Despite previous government initiatives to cap or reduce spending on consultants, the public accounts indicate that this spending item has increased consistently in recent years.

Canadians expect prudent fiscal management of their tax dollars; however, your government is not delivering on that, President. With the spring update, we learned that, as a result of the past decade of Liberal spending, the cost to service the national debt will now be $59 billion—

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

Is there a question?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

—representing a cost of $3,400 for every Canadian—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I'm sorry. There's a point of order, and I'm going to respond.

Mr. Danko, what's your point of order?

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

The point here is to ask the minister a question—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

That's not a point of order.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Is there a question coming up?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Mr. Danko, I asked at the very beginning that we hold our points of order for actual procedural issues. I ask that you respect that.

Please continue, MP Kusie. You have 50 seconds.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you very much.

President, I would also be very worried and concerned as a member of the government if it were my government being held to account. I certainly understand the attempt to stop the information that I'm presenting not only to the committee and to the president, which I know he's well aware of, since he stays on top of his files, but also to Canadians.

Minister, in closing, you and your government have noted that the implementation of the CER is well under way. However, as I've outlined, you've brought forward billions in new spending to Parliament and have just tabled the economic update, which does not provide any details on actual savings in 2026 and 2027 by departments and agencies. When I last asked you questions, you said I was confused about your savings plan.

Minister, I'm not confused about your plan, because the plan does not clearly exist.

Can you be honest with Canadians today and share your plan, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

I apologize, Minister, but we are past the time. Perhaps you can answer that in Mr. Gasparro's round.

You're up, Mr. Gasparro.

[Vince Gasparro, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you for being here, Mr. President.

You noted in your remarks the total planned spending of $502.8 billion. Could you highlight some of the main factors driving the increases compared to last year's estimates, please?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Thank you for your question.

Thank you for your work.

I was not given the chance to respond to the previous question from my colleague on the main estimates. There was a lot in it. As for the question to me on the estimates, I will remind everyone that this study is about the main estimates 2026-27. As I mentioned, there is $502.8 billion in spending, up $15.9 billion from last year.

Chair, there is $230.4 billion in voted spending and $272.4 billion in statutory spending.

Approximately $300.5 billion, 60%, is for transfer payments to, for example, the Canada health transfer, elderly benefits and fiscal equalization.

There is $14.7 billion in new budget 2025 spending, mainly to defence and infrastructure.

There is $11.8 billion for the Treasury Board Secretariat, mainly for government-wide costs—for example, public service insurance and benefits. That increase includes vote 20, in which public service insurance is increased by $1.03 billion. Also, vote 50—defence and security initiatives—is increased by $1 billion. Those are the main estimates. The major figures are included.

[Vince Gasparro, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you for that.

How is the government approaching cost management while ensuring that Canadians continue to receive the high-quality service they rely on?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

We were elected with the mandate to spend less, invest more and balance our operational budget in the next three years, as well as to build the strongest economy in the G7. We are laser-focused on that.

Part of the mandate given to me by the Prime Minister was to launch a comprehensive expenditure review, asking how we could balance our operational budget, find savings from underperforming programs and reinvest into core priorities. That's exactly what we did.

In that review, we will achieve savings of $9 billion in 2026-27, $10 billion in 2027-28 and $13 billion in 2028-29. This is ongoing. Those savings are coming from duplicative, underperforming programs; we're finding those savings and investing in defence, infrastructure and housing.

Those are the core priorities of our mandate in the new government.

[Vince Gasparro, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I'm glad you mentioned the comprehensive expenditure review. Maybe you can elaborate a bit on the impact it's having on our deficit and on the broader purpose and value it brings to improving government operations.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

We're focused on finding efficiencies, investing in core priorities and delivering results for Canadians. The main estimates 2026-27 propose over $48 billion for defence to support modern equipment, training and co-operation with international partners.

The estimates also contain central vote 50, which is $1 billion to provide flexibility for unforeseen national defence or security needs. All allocations will be reported in the next estimates. These are the measures we have been taking to deliver results for Canadians.

[Vince Gasparro, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Great, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

We'll go to Madame Gaudreau for six minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all of you.

I'd like to talk a little about the return to the workplace and the lack of space, which we hear a lot about in the media. Obviously, you know the government is requiring public servants to return to the workplace, and reports are suggesting a lack of space in federal offices.

How do we explain this contradiction between an imposed policy and the actual capacity to accommodate staff in the departments?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Thank you for your very important question. First of all, I'd like to thank all public servants for their contribution in delivering services to Canadians.

The policy is in place to have four days for public servants to be in person and five days for executives to be in person. Obviously, we're working with my counterpart, Minister Lightbound from PSPC, to make those arrangements for the spaces. We are mindful of the health and safety of our public servants.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Was a full assessment of all real estate and space needs done before imposing the return to the workplace policy?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

There is a consideration that the policy's in place, and it's PSPC's job to provide office spaces. They are working on that.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Well, like it or not, if you run out of space, you turn to attrition. For some public servants, it'll mean the end of their career.

We're short of space because public servants are being asked to come back to work. Buildings will have to be rented, renovated and adapted.

What can we anticipate to adapt? What can we anticipate for infrastructure?

I'm really concerned. On the one hand, we're talking about cuts to the public service, and on the other hand, we're going to have to invest to redevelop offices. I have a hard time explaining that to my constituents. It makes no sense to them. Explain that to me, please.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Thank you for the question. It's a really important question.

Before COVID, we had in-person office spaces, and the public service was working from offices. Things changed during COVID, and now, we as a new government have an ambitious agenda. We need to deliver services to Canadians, and it's important for our public servants to have a healthy and safe environment in which to collaborate, to have team-building and to deliver services to Canadians. We're working with our counterparts, union leaders and PSPC to make those arrangements.

I'll ask my deputy to shed some light if you'd allow 30 seconds.