That's a great question.
I'll say that it's been a challenge. We've been in the media; we've been out there, and we've been very transparent over the last couple of years about our challenges. For some people, that's hard to take, so we've had a higher than normal turnover. A lot of the people who are leaving are saying that it's because the compensation and the benefits aren't at the level of other Crown corporations and government departments.
As I mentioned earlier, we have a defined contribution pension that we take the risk on, and that's what I'm on. We don't have any guaranteed pensions here. We've taken those costs out. We've taken 10% of the management, and we've committed to the minister that we're going to continue to look at all layers.
One thing with CUPW is that those members still have job security in that agreement, so we're not.... A number that was presented in the media was 30,000. What we meant to say, and what we said, I think, was that up to 30,000 people will be eligible for retirement over the next 10 years. We're going to use attrition and leverage attrition so that people will leave with their retirement benefits and so on, but we might not replace them all. That's really what we're doing here.