Subcommittee on Sports-Related Concussions in Canada Committee on May 1st, 2019

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

No, that's okay.

I guess this is my question.... We do have enough research now. We're not in a cave. I respect the candour. You need to keep the core elements of professional hockey and, in your opinion, those core elements and that physical contact are the essence of NHL hockey, the essence of this.... As you know, it's a profit-making sports enterprise. I understand that, but we know that it's evolving. We're teaching our kids. Our kids are learning. There's eventually going to be this gap because there is more research that's coming.

The NFL has put research dollars into some vanguard research that's being done at the University of Calgary. Is that something the NHL would be interested in, maybe in conjunction with the players' association, to get some research that would help move along this evolution? Essentially, what will end up happening as younger players evolve and continue to be fans of the NHL is that the NHL will be dinosaurs and there will be this gap.

You'll be long gone, Mr. Bettman, I'm sure, with all due respect. It's the legacy, the succession planning, right? Do you see merit to targeting and focusing on some type of research? What would the advantage be to having a government role?

[Gary Bettman]

We do research, but our research is focused on identifying and treating concussions. That's where our expertise is. We're not a medical facility and we're not a scientific facility, but we have the ability to try to understand what in our game causes injuries, by collecting data, reviewing the video, using our expertise, educating, sharing that information and understanding the best way to treat concussions for a long-term recovery. That's where we've spent on player safety, I believe, $44 million, $32 million of which has been spent on our work related to concussions.

While we're not in the business of medical and scientific research, we think that by using our resources and sharing it with the other sports, the other levels of hockey, we can make a difference in terms of how the game is played and how concussions are treated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you.

We'll go back to the Liberals and Dr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

I'd like to pick up where we left off. We might have our definitions mixed up. I want to go again to this belief that if you have fighting, it might deter other kinds of blows to the head. You're saying that I'm asking you to prove a negative. In fact, I'm asking you to prove a positive: that if you have less fighting, you're going to have more blows to the head.

[Gary Bettman]

We have less fighting and we have less blows to the head.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

How does this compare with forms of hockey where you don't have any fighting? Are you saying that there are more concussions or more head injuries and concussions in Olympic hockey?

[Gary Bettman]

We have, of the other North American leagues, less fighting.

[Bill Daly]

The lowest incidence.

[Gary Bettman]

We have the lowest incidence of fighting of all the other North American leagues.

By the way, let's move aside from the 85%. The fact is that fighting over the last four years is down 54% from what it was, and fighting continues to evolve out of the game from where it was.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay. It's evolving out, and that is good. I'm glad to hear that. The fact that, again, it's still there—

[Gary Bettman]

Yes, it is.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'd like to offer a contrary opinion by a player. You said the players want fighting. This is hardly unanimous among players.

Nick Boynton wrote a piece called “Everything's Not O.K.”. You're probably familiar with it.

[Gary Bettman]

Yes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

He said that there's, and I quote, “a dangerous culture in the league that leaves players open to brain damage, mental illness and substance abuse”, and he connected many of these issues to head trauma suffered in fights.

How do you respond to that? How do you respond to a player who says that?

[Gary Bettman]

On this whole topic, and as this dialogue is making clear, there's no shortage of opinions on this subject. The good news from your standpoint is that as the game has evolved to a skill game and we don't have the bench-clearing brawls of decades ago, we don't have third man in, there's an instigator rule that precedes me, and there's less and less fighting than there's been—not because of some edict, but because of the way the game is now being played—that is a more organic way of dealing with the evolution of the game.

Whether it's the OHL, the WHL, the QMJHL, the USHL, the AHL or the ECHL, we have less incidence of fighting than any of those leagues. If you're looking for us to be setting an example, the fact of the matter is that we have less fighting.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

You should have none, quite frankly. It is still dangerous—

[Gary Bettman]

You and I don't know the consequences of that. When they polled the players a few years ago, 98% said they didn't want the rule changed. In fact, there have been a number—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

Thank you to both of you.

We're moving over to the Conservatives and Dr. Kitchen.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Gary Bettman]

This is the lightning round.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I appreciate it.

I was asking you earlier about referees. My next question deals with the issues of consistency. Oftentimes consistency makes a huge difference in how players and coaches, etc., react to things. I'm just wondering how you might respond. What steps do you take when you see something that appears to be retaliatory.

I was involved at McGill University playing rugby. The women's rugby team there that I helped out, they remembered the last time they played a person and they would bring it out right like that. Hockey players are the same way. They remember things. For example, recently, there was a game where there was a hit to the head. The player was out for three games. There was a suspension. That person came back and retaliated with a fight. The suspension that he got was not even close to what was done initially.

I'm wondering how we keep that consistency, especially when minor leagues are looking to see what the NHL is doing.

[Gary Bettman]

The beauty of having the resources we have in the department of player safety, led by former players, is that they know everything that's going on in the game. If there's an act that transcends the rules and that we believe is an act of retaliation, it gets dealt with appropriately. If we suspect, because of public statements or whatever, that there's going to be an act of retaliation, the clubs and the players are warned in advance. That is absolutely critical to us monitoring everything that's going on in the game.

With respect to fighting, nobody has to fight. The game has also evolved in that way. If you decide you don't want to fight, you can walk away from a fight. You don't have to do it. In fact, if somebody tries to fight you and you're not fighting back, there's a penalty for that and the officials take care of it. I would say probably 75% or 76% of our players never engage in a fight. The extent that do maybe have one fight a season. Lots of players having lots of fights is from a bygone era. The culture is now that if you choose not to fight, you don't have to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Fonseca]

You have 30 seconds.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

That's okay.