Subcommittee on Sports-Related Concussions in Canada Committee on Nov. 28th, 2018

[Ash Kolstad]

Just from the sport level around policy changes, I think we really need the research to tell us what the effect is of policy changes. I know there's research out there for disallowing bodychecking, and that reduces injury and concussion, but I think there needs to be a large focus also placed on what happens when a concussion occurs, or a suspected concussion. Are the coaches watching? What are the coaches doing? Are they following that “when in doubt, sit them out” policy? Are they making sure that the player has been medically cleared to return back before participating again?

I think a really large focus needs to be placed on what happens when a suspected concussion occurs.

[Mona Fortier]

Mr. Phair, would you like to add anything?

[Carter Phair]

For me, I think, the rules maybe just need to be upheld a little bit more stiffly, and players need to be taught how to protect themselves at a younger age to be able to avoid some of those hits.

[Mona Fortier]

Anne, do you want to add something as a parent?

[Anne Phair]

Yes. I agree 100% that the culture needs to change, but I believe Carter's first three concussions wouldn't have happened if he'd been wearing the correct helmet for his level. There were many opportunities for somebody to have figured that out. All it would take is a list and a trainer on every team, even for the little guys, to tell them what kind of approved helmet they need to be safe.

When Carter received the correct helmet, he never again received a concussion from a puck to the head.

[Mona Fortier]

I'll put the question another way.

When you started playing, was the reality of concussions addressed on your teams? Did you talk to friends, your parents, the trainers? Did you have that conversation, or did you start to talk about it when it happened to players on your teams?

Mr. Phair, you can go first. Since I don't have much time left, could you please be brief?

[Carter Phair]

There wasn't one when I was younger. I knew they existed, but that was about it. It wasn't until, I guess, midget that I saw guys getting them. When I made it to junior, there's baseline testing, but other than that.... You don't hear anything about it until it actually happens.

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you.

Ash.

[Ash Kolstad]

I agree with that fully. I didn't even know what a concussion was when I had my first one. I had never heard that term before. Even after a few years of my second one, I was explaining to people what happened and what it was. No, I don't ever remember talking to anyone.

[The Chair]

We are moving into our second round of questions. These will be for five minutes.

Ms. Kusie, welcome to our committee.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair]

Ms. Kusie is from the Calgary area.

You're here on sports-related concussions and you'll be sharing your time with Mr. Kitchen.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Yes. Thank you very much.

Previously I was the deputy shadow minister for health. I've moved on in the portfolio.

More important to me today is that I am the mother of a seven-year-old boy who plays hockey. These stories are really terrifying for me to hear, and I feel very grateful that I got to sub in today on this occasion. I want to thank you all so much for being here to share your stories and for being so brave as to confront this and to share your stories with us and of course with Canadians.

I will say that I'm a mother who would have far preferred that my son do robotics or debate club, even though my community does have a very proud tradition in minor hockey. My son really wanted to do this, and my husband really wanted to do this with him as a family activity. He enjoys it, but he's also in the process of deciding now whether or not he wants to be a goalie, which is really scary for me. They alternate right now and he played that role recently, so I watch in trepidation as he makes the decision.

My comment is that I think every parent who has their child in hockey should have the fear that was instilled in me today. When everyone sees this picture of Carter, they should be thinking of their son or daughter who plays hockey as well.

My only question, because I wasn't certain, is about how parents are required to take a significant conduct overview prior to their child stepping onto the ice. I was just curious as to whether or not this conduct tutorial included a segment on concussions. If so, I am happy to hear that. If not, I certainly feel that it should be included. If any of our witnesses here today have that information, I would appreciate it.

No...? Well, then, perhaps that's something that as critics we could check into.

With that, thank you so much again for being here and for your messages to us.

I'll pass the time on to my colleague Mr. Kitchen.

[Robert Kitchen]

Thank you.

I want to touch on a point that Anne brought up and touched on a bit, recognizing that this is a study of sport concussions, not just hockey concussions, and that they do happen in other sports. My statistics say that 48% happen in hockey, but they happen in all other sports, including soccer, football, basketball, rugby and volleyball, etc. We need to be cognizant of that. This question might have a little to do with that because it deals with equipment, and, Anne, you brought that up.

I spent many years as a coach, a parent, a trainer, a team doctor and a manager. It was the whole nine yards. As you said, Kathy, it was my life during the wintertime. It's what got us through winters in Saskatchewan, right, Anne? It's how it works. You went from September until April and you were family. That was your livelihood. When it's taken from you, it's very hard.

On the point of equipment, I found that as I coached that it's oftentimes a challenge to a coach too. Granted, we want to look at this and to say that the coaches need that training. I think we need to ask that, but when they go into a sports store, they're relying on the the person there being knowledgeable and providing them with the right equipment, providing the right-fitting shoulder pads.

People don't understand that when you put on those shoulder pads and mom or dad says they want the big ones because they make their boy look big, the reality is that those are probably worse for him than the smaller ones. They also want skates that are two sizes too big. Why? Because he's going to grow this year and therefore they want him to get through the winter on one pair of skates for $200 rather than two pairs. Those are big challenges. Helmets are another aspect. We look at things, we see the CSA standard stamped on that helmet, and we say, okay, this is approved. That's a challenge.

I would like to hear your general comments on that. Is that enough? Do we need more than just “CSA approved”? Do we need more training for the trainers, the doctors and the equipment manufacturers?

Go ahead, Anne.

[Anne Phair]

Yes, we totally need all of that. We went to a store that sold the high-end pro equipment. They knew what level of hockey Carter was playing. They gave us recommendations. The sticker on it said it was NHL-approved, so I didn't think there was any way that helmet wasn't good enough, yet as soon as the trainer in Kamloops had a look at it, he said this helmet is terrible. He should never have been wearing it since bantam hockey, since he was 14 years old. I could only rely on what the store was telling me. I knew nothing better, and I knew at $1,000, it darn well should protect his head.

Yes, there needs to be some kind of standard out there and somebody who can check kids' equipment so we know it's proper. Obviously the stamp....

[The Chair]

Thanks, Anne.

We're moving over to the Liberals and Darren Fisher from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Nova Scotia.

[Darren Fisher, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much to all of you, parents and athletes, for being here.

You all identify as athletes. That's how you saw yourselves when you played the game. That was your identity. You were also students. You were also peoples' friends, but you've all lost so much. The three of you are no longer playing the sport you love, that you grew up loving and that you grew up working so hard to get good at.

Matthew, Ash, Carter: Carter is the strong, silent type, he may not want to chime in on this too much. He reminds me of my 17-year-old son. They won tonight, 5-2.

Ash, nine years later you're still feeling the impacts of a concussion. Besides the obvious things and the things you've said in your testimony tonight—and thank you very much for this—what else have you lost? I think about losing your whole grade 8 at school. You've all lost school time. You may all now have different groups of friends who are no longer the groups of friends you were with when you played sport.

I'll start with Ash, but anyone who wants to chime in, feel free.

[Ash Kolstad]

Hockey was extremely important to me. I played that sport for eight years, and to have it taken away from me in an instant, as you said, was super hard. After the concussion when I went back to school I was still hanging out with my friends and they were all still playing hockey, most of them on the same team, and they were talking about what happened in last night's game, in the weekend tournament, and I couldn't feel part of that conversation anymore. It really was hard. It made me feel like I had to isolate myself from talking to people because I couldn't fit in anymore. I was “the concussion guy”, in a way.

[Darren Fisher]

Are you still friends with that same group you grew up with through the system?

[Ash Kolstad]

Some of them, yes, but not all of them.

[Darren Fisher]

Matthew, what else besides the obvious do you feel you have lost?

[Matthew Chiarotto]

Definitely hockey, as Ash said. It was a really big sport in my life, especially since my brother played on the same team. After I left hockey I was really sad. I didn't really feel that happy when I was watching my brother play the game when I couldn't play because it was too dangerous for me, and I didn't want to get hurt again.

I lost time in school that I couldn't gain back. I lost some of my friends, but definitely hockey was most important because it was such a big part of my life. I'm really sad that I can't play anymore, but it was the right decision for me.

[Darren Fisher]

Carter, do you want to chime in on that?

[Carter Phair]

Sure. For me, it's the social aspect. As you said I was pretty quiet to begin with and hockey pulled me out of my shell every day and I enjoyed it a lot. Now I have to make new friends. That's just how it is.

[Darren Fisher]

Matthew, we were chatting outside earlier, and I think it was you or your mom who said you wanted to turn a bad situation into a good one. You're a junior sportscaster, and I hope someday maybe you'll hire me when you are working at Sportsnet or TSN as a sportscaster.

I think it was you who said something about refs losing control of the game. I've been to many games where refs have been perceived as losing control. I know that Anne made a lot of recommendations as well, but were you recommending that referees have the ability to shut the game down? They have that ability but I don't think they exercise it very often because the crowd would probably go crazy.